Is this abuse (long)

[Thefemaleunicorn]

Dh and I have been married 10yrs and have 3 dcs aged 8,5,2.

We have always had a firey relationship ie blazing rows before we had kids but they were a rare thing balanced by a strong relationship. We've had some rough times, dh has been diagnosed with depression after his family rejected me and tried to sabotage our relationship (offered me money to not marry him etc) but mainly from his work and he left a bullying boss recently. He had a nervous breakdown last year after bring made redundant. He doesn't cope well with family life says he is 'married with kids when he should be having fun' to quote the song. It also idolises the children and is great with them 90% of the time........

Since his depression started (2yrs) he has been short fused, he put me in a head lock one night and swung me round the room - I hit him back then called the police but he ripped the phone out of the wall. The police arrived anyway and gave him a warning. I then asked him to stay at his parents for a while which he did. He then started losing it with the kids mainly when they are naughty he can't control himself and has picked them up by the shoulders and shook them, has thrown them down on the bed etc. never hits them but 'man handles' them. He mainly picks on ds 5. He flicks his ear, shouts at him, shakes him, grabs him by the arm which has left marks. Yesterday I was working from home and was on the phone to a client ds comes to the office room and dh says no don't go in there ds ignores him next thing ds is screaming and dh has lost shouting at him ds is on the floor with a big hand print under his armpit where dh grabbed him. Dh said he was stopping him coming in.

This behaviour is 10% of the time. The rest of the time I couldn't wish for a better dad to the kids or husband. He plays with them takes them to soft play etc.

I told him to get anger mgt counselling or he would have to leave that was a year ago. He's having the counselling and it got better but its started again.

I told his parents and they said he's never been like that until I came along. They told me they would want custody of the three dcs and they are top drs so would hire a top solicitor.

Dh is terrified I will leave him. I've told him to stay away this week. I'm not a shrinking violet, I have told him it has to stop or he lives away and sees the kids at weekends. I've started logging times and photos of what he's done to the children and I can't let him keep doing this, I have to protect them.

My friend says I'm over reacting that dh is lovely and its obviously depression related. Dh is mortified and says he hates himself and that he is gutted. My mum and sister say its sad but I have to do something.

I'm on mat leave but a out to go back to work, I have no money but will have shortly.

I feel like running away with the kids. I am so soul destroyed. Please fellow mums - help me. What should I do?

Have also posted in relationships as new to this.

Really I think the good course of action now is to get your h out of the house, see a solicitor, go to Womans Aid for real life support, and don't allow him to see the kids alone, only supervised

I echo what everyone else has said.

If you do not remove him from the situation and report him for his abuse of the kids and childcare or school see marks on them then it will be referred to social services as a child protection case and you will be seen as a potential abuser or at the very least complicit for not taking action to protect them.

If there is no record of the abuse and you split then he will get unsupervised access and you will not be there to prevent any further escalation.

There is a thread in chat here where a young girl has been assaulted by her father during an access visit. The courts gave him access despite a history of domestic violence towards the OP.

Please, please act now, you have tried and given him chances he has not changed. Do not leave it until one of your kids or you end up seriously hurt.

Get a solicitor, talk to Women's Aid.

Oh and stay away from your friend and the PIL, they are not helping or supporting you.

I've spoken to women's aid told them everything and they said its emotional verging on physical abuse. Said that I have to make him take responsibility to see his counsellor urgently and stay away until then and get him to acknowledge on email that he is wrong and what he did so its in writing (which he's just done). I have to give him the chance to see his counsellor and get her thoughts on his mental capacity ie is he ill then go from there. Also going to gp to record hand print.

My take on this is that his parents are terrifying. I'm not surprised he's beside himself with parents like that. They sound monstrous.

No excuse for physical abuse, ultimately. ie he mustn't be around the kids: period. Whatever is behind his rage, he can't take it out on the kids and, of course, you. He can't take it out on anybody - he has to find a healthy way to express his understandable (imo) rage. It's said that depression is unexpressed rage, turned inwards. You may have compassion for what he may have experienced but, ultimately, you have to do all it takes to protect your kids and yourself.

Taking his eye off the ball because his counsellor said he was 'ok' has been a big mistake. My own experience of a toxic, also violent, childhood is that you're working on it, on and off, for the rest of your life. That's just how it goes. He can never let this drop and think he is 'cured'. That's not to say one can't go on to have healthy, functioning relationships etc but imo there will always be a weak link and there must be iron-clad strategies in place to address it should the need arise.

I'm amazed his parents are still in your lives, much less you talking to them about difficulties in your marriage - what were you thinking? What was their reason for eg paying you not to marry their son; and also saying they would get custody of your children?

That's good female, so you have a plan of action

Well anotherstitch its complicated, his mum is awful, dad a top dr and previous Harvard lecturer. They took an instant dislike to me as I don't have a degree (even though I earn more than dh as a mgt consultant). They have interfered in our lives from day one, his mum said I was not what she wanted for him, his ex was a dr and they loved her. They said I was common - I have a northern accent. I looked after her mother when they lived in Germany after her husband died but she just criticised me for it (despite me driving to Cornwall from the north(!) and back in two days to buy her food shopping!). In a nutshell, they despise me. They called dh before our wedding and said we've lost our son and what can we do to stop this going ahead. She called me the morning of wedding and said 'a dark cloud is over my family and its you, how much to go away?' She threw a bottle of white wine over me at the reception after I spilled red on my dress. There was a massive fall out. We didn't speak to them until dd1 was born. We now let them see the kids once a year but its awful and I cry all the time. Mil said they don't see them enough and are keeping a chart of how we limit access and when dcs are old enough will offer them the chance to live with them. That's the custody conversation. I contacted them because I wanted dh to go and stay somewhere else and I wanted their support - stupid of me. I'm trapped with this family in my life for ever and I wish I could take my three gorgeous children and disappear so they can never find me.

Sorry rant over :( I feel awful today sorry - going fir a walk in the sunshine to pull myself together.

Glad to see you have a plan.

I disagree with Women's Aid that is is verging on physical. He has already physically abused you and what he is doing to your kids is not just emotional as unnecessary force is involved in disciplining them.

Does he do this to anyone else or is it just you and his kids? He is depressed, but he is still making a choice to behave this way. Read Lundy Bancroft's 'Why Does He Do That?', it will help you understand the cycle of abuse.

It is going to be a long road for him if he does want to change, do not be tempted to let him back home too early (if that is what you decide will happen eventually if he changes).

You have seen already that he can relapse into old behaviour patterns.

I would suggest that you get off mumsnet and onto a dv site where you can gain some help and insight. ASAP before he starts putting the kids in head locks and swinging them around the room. As for his family unless you are unable to look after your kids then they haven't got a chance of custody, they really haven't. Get you and your kids away and somewhere safe.

Would it be an idea to also get your dh to say in an email about the abuse from his parents? Eg "Do you think a lot of your depression is due to .... Is it worth discussing this with your counsellor" and hope he talks about it.

I think the odds of them launching a successful custody bid is pretty much nil but then you have evidence and can stop worrying about it.

Btw I had toxic grandparents I think. ( Or, at least, my mum had toxic parents) I had no desire to live with them. They were strangers who said horrid things about my parents!

Oh and his parents are in cloud cuckoo land, they see your kids once a year and they think your kids would want to leave you and their friends to live with them?

If you split, your DH would get supervised access at a contact centre and because of the risk that they might let him be around the kids unsupervised it would be easy to stop them having access visits. They are not entitled to anything as grandparents. Access is for the benefit of the kids. If they are vocally poisonous about you then that is damaging for the kids to be around. Your solicitor will advise you.

As someone said upthread, grandparents have no rights over their grandchildren so all this talk of 'limiting access' is futile because they have no rights to access. Plus, no child is going to agree to go and live with someone they see once a year so they can 'offer' all they like but it won't do any good. Don't be deceived by them; they may have money and power but they are considerably limited by the law of the land in what they can do with regards to your children. The one weak spot in this is if you, as well as your husband, show yourself to be an unfit parent and that is why you need to report his abuse NOW. By doing so you stop the abuse and also prevent him or his awful parents getting their hands on the kids. You are not trapped as long as you take action.

I'm trapped with this family in my life for ever and I wish I could take my three gorgeous children and disappear so they can never find me.

You are NOT. You can cut them off. They sound absolutely horrific, like something out of a novel ie pantomime dame horrific. Please don't fall into the trap of thinking that 'kids need their grandparents' - yes they do, but they don't if said grandparents are pure arsenic.

I have. Taken action.

I'm sorry I haven't read the entire thread.

You need to get away from this family. Please. Get as far away from them as possible before they do any more damage to your children.

I'm sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick, and I really hope I have but are you allowing your DH to harm your children and then taking pictures of the wounds and not reporting it to the police, HV, SS, anyone? Wtf?

Totally agree snazzy, they haven't got a eg to stand on, mybgoodness tey are as toxic as hell. Why would the Chidren want to live with virtual,toxic strangers when they have a lovely mummy! The law would support this however much money they have, they cannot buy everything! They annot buy a child's love for their wonderful mother. You are not trapped at all, you have nothing to do with them, just focus on your 3, wonderful kids!

Westie there is no need for that, the op is doing something, geese give her a break. She needs support not unhelpful nasty comments like that, talk about knocking a person when they are down. It's going to,achieve zilch!

Westiemumm read the posts before you make sweeping judgements against me. I am taking action, I always have done from day one.

Thanks piglet mania :)

I can't add anything that other haven't but just want to give me support! Be strong for yourself and your children.

His parents' behaviour is abusive.
His behaviour is abusive.
it's not about anger. His past may explain his behaviour but it doesn't excuse it. It's about power and control.
It's great that you have spoken to WA and that you will take your DS to the GP.

This is not your fault but you will have to be the one to protect your children.

There is a need for it. The OP states that this has been going on for 2 years. Her children have been exposed to this for 2 years. That is not acceptable.

Nor are your responses, she cannot change the past, but she can change the future

I don't think westie is making sweeping statements, merely giving her view of what it's like to grow up with this stuff. As she said this has been going on for a while and the op needs to take action as fast as she can. Op is an adult and therefore makes her own choices but those kids have been hurt and I'm sure westie is just making the point !

I do agree with westie because I also have a lot of rage towards my mother for not protecting us from our father. I don't think it was an unhelpful comment - I do think these things need flagging up, even though it is hard to say and hard to face sometimes.