Is this abuse (long)

[Thefemaleunicorn]

Dh and I have been married 10yrs and have 3 dcs aged 8,5,2.

We have always had a firey relationship ie blazing rows before we had kids but they were a rare thing balanced by a strong relationship. We've had some rough times, dh has been diagnosed with depression after his family rejected me and tried to sabotage our relationship (offered me money to not marry him etc) but mainly from his work and he left a bullying boss recently. He had a nervous breakdown last year after bring made redundant. He doesn't cope well with family life says he is 'married with kids when he should be having fun' to quote the song. It also idolises the children and is great with them 90% of the time........

Since his depression started (2yrs) he has been short fused, he put me in a head lock one night and swung me round the room - I hit him back then called the police but he ripped the phone out of the wall. The police arrived anyway and gave him a warning. I then asked him to stay at his parents for a while which he did. He then started losing it with the kids mainly when they are naughty he can't control himself and has picked them up by the shoulders and shook them, has thrown them down on the bed etc. never hits them but 'man handles' them. He mainly picks on ds 5. He flicks his ear, shouts at him, shakes him, grabs him by the arm which has left marks. Yesterday I was working from home and was on the phone to a client ds comes to the office room and dh says no don't go in there ds ignores him next thing ds is screaming and dh has lost shouting at him ds is on the floor with a big hand print under his armpit where dh grabbed him. Dh said he was stopping him coming in.

This behaviour is 10% of the time. The rest of the time I couldn't wish for a better dad to the kids or husband. He plays with them takes them to soft play etc.

I told him to get anger mgt counselling or he would have to leave that was a year ago. He's having the counselling and it got better but its started again.

I told his parents and they said he's never been like that until I came along. They told me they would want custody of the three dcs and they are top drs so would hire a top solicitor.

Dh is terrified I will leave him. I've told him to stay away this week. I'm not a shrinking violet, I have told him it has to stop or he lives away and sees the kids at weekends. I've started logging times and photos of what he's done to the children and I can't let him keep doing this, I have to protect them.

My friend says I'm over reacting that dh is lovely and its obviously depression related. Dh is mortified and says he hates himself and that he is gutted. My mum and sister say its sad but I have to do something.

I'm on mat leave but a out to go back to work, I have no money but will have shortly.

I feel like running away with the kids. I am so soul destroyed. Please fellow mums - help me. What should I do?

Have also posted in relationships as new to this.

Ds sees it as a game at the moment - as dh never actually hits him as such he grabs him ds does the same back to him. It's difficult

This is can be common pattern in Domestic Violence and physical abuse, it starts as a game,I've seen it mostly in my work with younger couple but also with parents and children. Unfortunately one person always has power and when it tips over into violence and abuse, there is someone getting hurt who has already been desensitised.

I think you know your DH is being abusive. He is also doing this in front of you to desensitise you from rough and aggressive behaviour.

I'm actually really worried for you OP.

What do you intend doing about contact whilst he is living elsewhere?

Try and remember that you cannot all of a sudden disclose abuse and get believed by courts ect if you have merrily sent them off with him every weekend for months and never mentioned it.

You need to do everything you can now to make things official talk to woman's aid they cannot give legal advice but they can tell you how to go about getting agency involvement to assist you from that front.

Talk to your docter, get legal advice any documentation of injuries on you or the children take with you and do it sooner rather than later.

Its not only domestic abuse its also physical child abuse and as sad as it sounds unless you do something about it and actively show you are protecting them your skills as a parent will come into question YOU will be deemed to be failing to protect them and this will give his family ammunition to use against you.

If I went to the gp with ds as he has a hand mark - would they contact social services

Talk to women's aid.
Also to your GP and school nurse or HV.
Then talk to women's aid again.

Yes he is being physically abusive.

Whatever is going on with him, he is not safe to be around the children and needs to be living somewhere else. Preferably he needs to leave the family home, but ring women's aid and they can advise you on the best thing to do next.

Is this a sudden personality change or not? I'm not totally clear. If it is he needs to be speaking to the doctor about it - but in the meantime the above still stands, even if there is a medical basis for what is going on he needs to stay away while it is sorted.

Thy might contact ss.
This sounds scary. Nobody wants their involvement but you have done nothing wrong. You are seeking to protect your children. They should offer you support.
Talk to women's aid. Seriously. Get off MN and contact them.
Then come back.

If he has left a hand mark you should be going to womans aid and the police, never mind social services and using this as a reason to get this dangerous man away from your poor bloody kids!

Your DC screaming and having a mark left under his armpit..? That isn't a game.

Please get some help O.P.

Your DC will be subjected to ongoing and worse physical abuse.

It doesn't matter how 'devastated' your DH will be. Or how 'reasonable' he will be about getting help. He is being abusive and cruel to your children.

It's not your fault. It will be your fault if you stay and fail to protect them.

If your DS goes to school with bruises a set of behavioural based issues, and disclosures that daddy hurt him it will be BOTH of you who will be subject to proceedings. You will be failing to protect him. Do you really want to wait for things to get that bad before you take some action? Because they will get that bad in years to come. How do you think another few years of being picked on and grabbed and bruised is going to impact on your DS. He is 5 and is developing the foundations of his psychosocial learning.

Please. Stop excusing your husband and making light. Perhaps don't talk to friends, talk to professionals and to people that understand how domestic violence and abuse works.

I'm going to have to go as i'm really struggling with this thread now.

I honestly do wish you all the best OP and hope that you can get see and think clearly and your DC and you don't endure ongoing stress and abuse from this man and his family.

Also look for a book called 'Dragon Slippers' it is a cartoon storybook. It's not about children as such but about the escalation of domestic violence.

If I went to the gp with ds as he has a hand mark - would they contact social services

Yes, they should do. but that really wouldn't be a bad thing. If you need things taken out of your hands, do that, let the GP or professionals make the referral. Please and come back as emily said. let us know how you all are.

If your gp does not contact children's services then they are not doing there job.

It will more than likely have one of two outcomes

A. You make it clear what steps your taking to keep him away from You and the kids (court orders changing locks crisis planning) they do a fairly short investigation accept the danger is just dad and not you and back you up with documents you can use in court to continue to protect you all, but cs are on your side so minimise his parents threat.

B. you come across as a bit of a wet blanket making excuses for him blaming his mental health and generally having no insite into how abusive he is so cs place your children with a family member or temp foster care whilst they investigate this is quite likely to be his parents. And you enter lengthy cp procedures and struggle to keep hold of your kids.

I know what one I would prefer.

Speak to women's aid now. You need to protect your children. I doubt a court would take children away from their mum and give custody to the paternal grandparents (or anyone), no matter how good their lawyer, unless there were serious genuine concerns. In this case, the only serious and genuine concern is whether you are sufficiently protecting your children from abuse - so make sure you are. Call women's aid, take their advice, act now. x

It's a gradual personality change - he changes under pressure and he stopped counselling 8 months ago because she said he was ok now. He was great for months but won't take his anti depressants and says he can't sleep so is taking sleeping tablets. I start work this week because we are in major financial crisis and he says he is worried sick about that. His dad used to hit him and he had a terrible childhood.

op, this sounds similar to my dad. Except he got worse, there was more hand prints and we (me and my siblings) were terrified of him.
DS is young now, but he will soon grow to realise that daddy is not playing, he is angry and scary and really hurts him.
I no longer talk to my dad, and i can see that my upbringing still does afect my life. EG. i find myself getting disproportinatly (sp?) angry over things that do not matter, or are a genunie accident- just like my dad would. also, i once accidently spent too much on DHs credit card, i was really upset and shaking and nervous to go home, expecting a bollocking- as my dad would have. then i remembered that my DH is lovely and nothing like my dad.

You do not want your boys to grow up thinking this is acceptable!

Write it all down. Keep a record and leave/get him out. These are your children, a top lawyer isn't going to get custody of children for an abusive parent (or the GPs) over a caring mother who did all she could to protect her children.

Your son is already learning that violence is "normal". Do you want him to grow up to be a violent bully?

You must kick him out right now. If he can't be arsed to sort himself out and see this as a massive problem then you are well rid. It's irrelevant that 90% of the time he's fine. It's the other 10% that will irreparably damage your children. What if it does escalate and he ends up disabling or killing you or one of your children (god forbid)?

Concur with sellbydate and sockreturningpixie

Though he didn't actually hit the children, it's still violence (and he's leaving marks), and most definitely abuse. Not to mention the violence against you.

You need to get help, go to women's aid, stop making excuses for him - having depression, is not an excuse for this behaviour. I think I probably misread part of your OP, in that I thought that if my DS was behaving like this and my DDil didn't take steps to protect the children, I would want custody of them as well. If you take action, then no-one would think about giving custody to anyone else. I hope you get things sorted out OP.

Depression or his childhood doesn't excuse his own behaviour. What do you intend to do, femaleunicorn? You know this cannot continue or be tolerated.

His dad used to hit him and he had a terrible childhood

And your children are right on course for a terrible childhood at the moment too. Unless you change something.

Imagining the point of view of a professional sockreturningpixie is correct. There are two choices that would be made now.

A or B.

Stop making excuses for your DH. He has clearly not been able overcome his past and is now inflicting his own wounds on your children.

It isn't acceptable or excusable. It doesn't matter whether it has been a sudden or gradual personality change. He isn't going to get better any time soon. He will get worse.

He isn't committed to parenting well or changing if he is singing that he doesn't want children and bullying them. Flying off the handle isn't the behaviour of someone trying to sort themselves out it is the behaviour of someone who is stunted, unwilling and in his case dangerous.

Do you really honestly think that this man has so little personal control that he can only not abuse his children whilest he is unstressed and medicated. COME ON!! WAKE UP!! There wwill always be stress, there will always be noise and problems. People choose how they respond. He has been given a set of responses to choose from and at the moment he is choosing from the ones given to him by his family.

I don't have much evidence though - one photo? Have called my solicitor.

Sorry OP. I* realise I was perhaps a bit harsh there. It must be horrible for you having to come to terms with the steps you need to take. Sorry.

PS. I suffered from massive depression at one stage whilst being bullied at work by my manager, it was a terrible, bleak time. I alternated between despair and fury. I never once found myself physically attacking anyone though. Your friend is an arse for suggesting it as a reason for his actions.

This man assaults your children on a regular basis, and whilst you stand by and do nothing, you are colluding with this behaviour. I have suffered from depression, as has my DH, but neither of us has assaulted anyone, that's just an excuse. You need to report this latest assault to the police.

Well done O.P. i would tentatively suggest the GP too or just call women's aid for a quick chat, that might help you. It'll also be logged that you've phoned them. If your worried about evidence etc.

You have done the first step.

Yes it is abuse.

You need to divorce him now and keep the kids away from him.

No excuses.

How will you explain their childhood to them when they grow up? The abuse will always overshadow and and cancel out any other "good times".

How will you excuse/explain his behaviour?

When they ask why you stayed, what will you tell them?

:(