To not really understand the problem with driving in the middle lane?

[BrokenSunglasses]

I've done a lot of motorway driving recently, and it's got me thinking, because I don't really understand when it's ok to be in the middle lane and when it's not.

I've worked out that its ok to stay in the middle lane when there's lots of cars/lorries on the inside lane and I'm going faster, but how long is it ok to stay in the middle lane when there's nothing right next to you on the inside lane?

Sometimes I stay in there longer than I perhaps should, but that's either because I can see that I'd only have to move out again in a minute because there's a slow moving lorry ahead, or because I can see a junction coming up and there will be cars filtering onto the the motorway.

I did that yesterday, and got flashed a lot by a van behind me, but it was raining so the visibility was crap, and I'd have had to slow down and be too close behind the car that was on the inside lane and would have been able to see even less because of the spray. It seems to me to be sensible to leave lots of space inbetween vehicles when it's raining, but this van made me doubt myself. He overtook me in the outside lane eventually, and I thought he should have just done that in the first place because that's what it's there for.

Was I being a lane hog or was he being a twat?

I really don't get it.

"if you know the Highway Code you will also know that you do not perform a manoeuvre that will cause another motorist to have to brake suddenly or perform an evasive manoeuvre. "

Goodness, how patronising! Quite certain I didn't say anything to indicate that I would do anything of the sort. Also I would expect most reasonably intelligent adults to know manoeuvres as you describe would be dangerous without needing the Highway Code to tell them.

And I'm quite certain I never do anything to "disrupt" lorry drivers overtaking each other going up a hill, much as I would like to on occasion, so I've no idea where that came from either.

Flowery. The use of the word you was meant as a general
You and not a personal you.

But didn't you say you were freaked our by those that indicated before there is a gap? They are only showing intention ( apart from Audi drivers who use it as a signal to say they are pulling out so don't get on their way lol )

And you were the one moaning about trucks.

I get freaked out by people who indicate before there is a gap, and I'm a confident driver of 25 years. I've had a couple of near misses as a result of people who indicate and move immediately, only to discover that there was actually someone in their blind spot. Never, ever assume another driver has seen you.

Sorry but YABU. Nothing boils my piss more than an empty motorway and some twit sitting in the middle lane doing 55, so you have to go from the inside lane all the way across and back to overtake them correctly

I haven't read all 9 pages but you are perfectly within your rights to undertake any numpty that hogs the middle lane. To quote an ex traffic officer you can undertake as long as its not aggressively or at high speed.

That applies irrespective of the traffic in the other lanes.

Middle lane hoggers should be banned as they're selfish b'stards that clog up already congested motorways. I use the M1 often and it's shocking how many people block up lanes 3 and 4 whilst lane 1 is completely empty!

I don't think anyone has mentioned, but hgvs and some vans are not allowed in the outside lane, so the poor van driver may have wanted to pass you, without performing an illegal manovre.

It is a pita if you are driving a vehicle not allowed in the outside lane and some chump is sat in the middle lane.

I think part of the problem is that so many people think there are fast and slow lanes on the motorway.

Agreed candy.

The national speed limit is 70mph. So what is wrong with driving in the mddle lane at 70mph? The only people I am in the way of is people intent on belting down the motorway at 70+

The national speed limit is 70mph. So what is wrong with driving in the mddle lane at 70mph? The only people I am in the way of is people intent on belting down the motorway at 70+

Apart from blocking up the motorway you are not the speed restriction police and so it's not your job to ensure that everyone else is keeping to your idea of 70mph.

Speedos differ, satnav's differ and so you rarely know what 70mph is. Plus we operate 10% +-2mph so the limit is quite variable.

Chances are, if you're sticking to 70 on your speedo then you're probably doing 65.

So Formalurka. It's your job to police the speed limit is it? And your way to police it is to illegally drive. What makes your breaking the law any more acceptable than someone who speeds!

My DP is a middle lane hogger and won't listen to me. I'm glad the police are able to stop and fine all the MLHs - we'll be a lot safer.

With how few people seem to indicate nowadays, I'd honestly rather those that don't bother stick to 1 lane, regardless of which it is. Huge hate of mine

I also don't think middle lane hogging is the fundamental problem but rather a symptom of a wider issue. For example, traffic joining the motorway are supposed to ensure their speed means they join while there's a large enough gap in traffic. Unfortunately this is rarely the case and often, drivers expect those in the inside lane to move out of the way. I've had a lot of near misses because of this. Also, very few people on motorways seem to know the stopping distance they should be allowing...a 30mph journey should have 6 car lengths between them and the car in front...it's a lot more for 70mph. I've found that the inside lane is the worst lane for this.

I think it would be more effective for the causes of middle lane hogging to be addressed than to introduce a system they don't have the man power to maintain.

Jolleigh

Agree. Despite the stats, driving in the UK is woeful and attitudes definitely need to change. How you do that is another matter entirely though.

Having driven the length/breadth of Germany I have found lane discipline and the quality of driving to be exceptional in many parts of the country. However I guess it's a necessity when there are no speed restrictions and poor driving likely to result in death.

I did Pass Plus and had motorway lessons. I was advised to pull in when I can see the overtaken vehicle in my rear view mirror as I have given it sufficient stopping distance. I also need an adequate distance in front and a sensible amount of time before I'm likely to overtake again. So it's not constantly pulling in and out, just being aware of what's going on ahead and behind and not compromising the safe space of other vehicles.

I do a fair bit of dual carriageway driving and what pees me off is pulling back to lane 1 when there's a chance, then the car behind (that was invariably too close) seems to slow down, take forever to pass and get you blocked in behind a slower vehicle that wouldn't have been a problem if everyone had maintained their speed.

I also hate it when I'm about to pull in having allowed for stopping distance, to find Mr Impatient is in my blindspot in lane 1 and undertaking because they couldn't bear to wait a couple of seconds.

On a busy 3+ lane motorway, I find it easier keeping left and occasionally overtaking than joining the bumper to bumper mele in lane 3. Even if I can't go faster than the traffic to the right, it's less stressy being at their speed with more space in front.

Thank goodness I wasn't being tailgated when the tree fell in front of my car a few months ago.

you are perfectly within your rights to undertake any numpty that hogs the middle lane. To quote an ex traffic officer you can undertake as long as its not aggressively or at high speed.

Funny, because the traffic officer to whom I asked the same question said it was careless or dangerous driving. I raised the situation of slow drivers in the outside lane of a motorway and he agreed that that driver is in the wrong, but doesn't give you carte blanche to undertake (as confirmed in the Highway Code).

Having said that, I still do it occasionally.

Lol, just goes to show how grey the area is WMittens

FWIW this was a chap at a speed awareness course that I attended and he said this in front of 30 people.

It's a pain when you get conflicting advice as it doesn't help us at all. However I can imagine a working traffic officer, as opposed to an ex one, saying that to prevent potentially dangerous driving. The last thing they probably want is people undertaking left/right/centre.

I still do it occasionally too.

When I was taught to drive I was told that changing lanes on the motorway was one of the most dangerous things to do when driving. Mind you, this was in a country where people undertake on the left, and don't let you in when you need to change.

"I did Pass Plus and had motorway lessons. I was advised to pull in when I can see the overtaken vehicle in my rear view mirror as I have given it sufficient stopping distance."

Yep, this is how it should be but you'd be surprised how many people think it's ok to nip in front of you.

You overtake in the middle lane, then pull in when safe to do so. Its really no rocket science. Everyone knows we drive on the left hand side of the road in the country - stick to that on motorways as well!

Middle lane hoggers do my nut in, its just such lazy driving. Because YOU want to sit at a specific speed in the middle lane you are forcing others to overtake you, or even worse, undertake you. What you think might be 70mph might not be, so you are either making someone sit behind you at your enforced speed, or go out to the outside lane and possibly go faster than they would like just to get past you.

Middle lane hoggers who sit at 70mph are bad enough, but the ones who sit at 60mph in a totally clear road are even worse. WHY? What on earth possesses you, on a clear piece of road, to move out to the middle lane and stay there. I really don't get it!

Hope loads of people get fined and may finally learn how to use a motorway properly.

This link was put up on Page 8, and maybe people would take the time to look at it? It explains the situation re middle lane hogging very clearly.

And, for all of those who say that they indicate when they want to change lane, rather than when their route is clear - in the hope that other drivers will let them out. You do know that you're not driving correctly don't you? The more people assume they can do that the more dangerous life gets for other drivers. Not so long ago, if you saw an indicator going on the lane inside of yours, you knew that driver was planning to pull out and probably hadn't seen you, and could act accordingly (very scarey sometimes). Now - what do you do? Assume they are just indicating that they want to pull out and that you can safely continue past them because you don't have space to let them out? Or brake to reduce your speed because you're thinking that they might be coming out and you're in their blind spot? Any time YOU induce anxiety in another driver you potentially creating and dangerous situation. Nine times out of ten a good driver will compensate for your incompetence and all will be well. When it goes wrong, well, it's bloody obvious isn't it? I think driving in general and particularly on motorways has got so much more dangerous in even the last 10 years. I think a major reason for this is demonstrated on this thread. People are building up a sort of folk lore about the correct way to drive (evidenced by the dispute about the correct way to use the motorway lanes, and people actually admitting that they indicate to see if others will create them a space to pull out!). Instead of everyone operating to a clear set of guidelines and regulations that we all understand and dealing with people making the odd mistake, we have to deal with people around us driving to their own set of imagined rules of the road who deliberately decide to ignore the guidelines and regulations. How dangerous when we're all driving round in metal missiles, sometimes with our children on board.

Tuppence - couldn't agree more.

I've also noticed that more and more drivers don't merge correctly - instead of waiting for a gap in the traffic and adjusting speed accordingly, they simply pull out and expect traffic to move into the outside lane for them. The abuse that I have received for not moving over to the outside lane immediately they 'need' to come onto the main road has been

Well, as most here are parents, maybe it's worth considering the potential implications of bad driving for the driver concerned, other drivers around them, and their families. Don't focus on what speed you want to go at and get pig-headed about maintaining it (it's been proved that this will only change your journey time by mere minutes). Proceed at a speed that's safe for the immediate situation. If you need to pull out to overtake, wait until there is a proper space for you to do this, and indicate correctly. Don't indicate with cars beside you, scare the crap out of other drivers, possibly misunderstand a signal from one of them and pull out causing an accident.

I'm sure some will say I'm being patronising, but I don't mean it that way, I'm saying that we should think of the bigger picture. Not how quickly we can get from A to B, or how another person is pissing us off by their driving, but how to get from A to B safely. Best chance of that happening for all of us is for people to stop making up their own road rules and to start following the ones they were taught on their lessons. In case of uncertainly, book a couple of refreshers!

p.s. Another bugbear of mine - relying on mirrors and not turning the head!

Tuppenceinred. You are of course right about getting from a to b as safely as possible.

But I do think you are incorrect about indicating as it is simply signally an intention to - giving a warning to other drivers. As has been said before, if drivers are scared by indicators they have a bigger problem with their driving.

Safe driving

I don't think people are saying there are scared by indicators - they are scared because an indicator should be used to indicate a manoeuvure as in 'mirror, signal, manoeuvure'. If someone is indicating then to me that is indicating their intention to move, and if I'm in coming up alongside them I worry that they haven't checked properly and are about to come into my lane - as has happened to me on previous occasions.