To not really understand the problem with driving in the middle lane?

[BrokenSunglasses]

I've done a lot of motorway driving recently, and it's got me thinking, because I don't really understand when it's ok to be in the middle lane and when it's not.

I've worked out that its ok to stay in the middle lane when there's lots of cars/lorries on the inside lane and I'm going faster, but how long is it ok to stay in the middle lane when there's nothing right next to you on the inside lane?

Sometimes I stay in there longer than I perhaps should, but that's either because I can see that I'd only have to move out again in a minute because there's a slow moving lorry ahead, or because I can see a junction coming up and there will be cars filtering onto the the motorway.

I did that yesterday, and got flashed a lot by a van behind me, but it was raining so the visibility was crap, and I'd have had to slow down and be too close behind the car that was on the inside lane and would have been able to see even less because of the spray. It seems to me to be sensible to leave lots of space inbetween vehicles when it's raining, but this van made me doubt myself. He overtook me in the outside lane eventually, and I thought he should have just done that in the first place because that's what it's there for.

Was I being a lane hog or was he being a twat?

I really don't get it.

This suggests you should only indicate when it is actually safe to overtake. Ie not when someone else is passing, but when you actually have space to pull out:

www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/overtaking-162-to-169

SirChejin - I am suggesting that I am scared by indicators! I think we're on the same wavelength. If I'm alongside, or nearly there, when a car on the inside of me puts the indicators on my stomach does a flip. Most of the time they are just drivers who are ignorant of how to use indicators properly and hoping I'll move somewhere to let them out. It's those few times when they aren't and they then start to pull out that gets the adrenalin going. I think once that's happened to a driver a few times they are justified in finding it a bit scarey.
Or of course, the times when the driver on the inside then starts getting visibly annoyed that I haven't moved to let them out, glaring, sticking fingers up, thumping their wheel... I can see the cars on my right preventing me moving into the outside lane. Or maybe, I'm supposed to just slam on my brakes to let them out? Who knows? What I do know is that in situations like this, when the ignorant driver causes an accident they tend to sail off regardless, as they end up "ahead" of it.

"But I do think you are incorrect about indicating as it is simply signally an intention to - giving a warning to other drivers. As has been said before, if drivers are scared by indicators they have a bigger problem with their driving."

You may be right in that some drivers think that putting on their indicators is simply an intention to go. However, if they think that is what indicators are for they need some refresher lessons, because as said many times above, they are wrong. Indicators are only an intention to go if the area the driver wants to move into is clear. Otherwise they shouldn't be on.

You know what? I'm going to hid this fucking thread because I drive a lot, all over the country, I'm on motorways every day. If I think too hard about the level of ignorance demonstrated by so many drivers on this thread I'm going to find it very hard to relax behind the wheel. Scared? Yes, they scare me because they are gambling with lives.

If I think too hard about the level of ignorance demonstrated by so many drivers on this thread I'm going to find it very hard to relax behind the wheel

Agreed. So many timid, ditzy, indecisive, inconsistent, easily spooked drivers out there.

If you aren't confident on the road, you shouldn't be driving. It's that simple.

Yes, but Jovellanos, it's the one who are ignorant and confident that really worry me.
And that's really my last post on this topic.

Ah, but too many drivers indicate and then expect the driver behind to create a space for them. I'm too long in the tooth and too experienced a driver - there is nothing that surprises me about other drivers.

There are far too many numpties on the road in all shapes and sizes - over-confident, under-confident, too fast, too slow, not aware of what's in their blind spot, no idea of stopping distances, of how to use motorways or roundabouts, what road signs mean, where to park safely, how to drive defensively...the list is endless. I'm amazed that more people aren't killed on the roads actually when you see the poor standard of driving from many people

I've been flashed by twats, one I remember on the M1 where it is 4 lanes (Yorkshire I think) and heavy rain. Lorries in inside lane, next lane so much spray from lorries I couldn't see a thing so I went into 3rd lane and some twat in a van decided he would be a twat and point for me to move over.

He wasn't in a restricted vehicle and had an entire lane to over take me.

On the other hand I called an ex colleague a twat for hogging the middle lane. He told me about being flashed by an HGV. He was going 50 in the middle lane and said "there was a lane on the left he could have used to overtake, and a lane on the right he could have used". I pointed out that both would be illegal and the driver depended on the road to make a living, and I did use the word twat.

I think undertaking is more of an issue and also sometimes would it be safer to stay in the middle lane if traffic is joining from a slip road and they couldn't get on the motorway otherwise.

I think people may become paranoid and overtake and then worry about getting back in the slow lane and pull in too soon and risk a pile up?

I drive a lot, and had a rare experience a couple of months ago ....the day after news broke about on-the-spot penalties for middle lane hogging, so it was all over the radio.
People just weren't lane hogging

It is a long time since I had seen the motorway move so freely....because drivers were pretty much all treating lanes as they should be used and not sitting mindlessly in their personal space, doing their personal thing. The left lanes were full, the middle lanes pretty much clear to overtake when you needed to (this was not rush hour but was the M6, busy areas....and part of M25).
Quite weird to see.....but haven't enjoyed a motorway drive so much for a long time.

Did the same trip again, last week.
Same old, same old.
Depressing.

The middle and outside lanes are overtaking lanes.

Tuppenceinred

I am suggesting that I am scared by indicators! I think we're on the same wavelength. If I'm alongside, or nearly there, when a car on the inside of me puts the indicators on my stomach does a flip.

Do you look for the driver's face? I.e. look in their mirrors, look through the window for any indication that they've checked their mirrors/blindspot? If you can't see their eyes, there's a possibility they haven't seen you.

Most of the time they are just drivers who are ignorant of how to use indicators properly and hoping I'll move somewhere to let them out.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this sounds a bit like you're holding station close to the side of the other car - if you're in the lane to the right of that car, you should be travelling faster than it to complete an overtake; if you're travelling at the same speed (or wanting to travel at the same speed) you should be in the same lane with an appropriate gap.

An overtake should be completed with in as short a time as it is reasonable and safe to do so, and you can then pull back in to the left-hand lane.

People who sit on my rear corner bug the hell out of me - they were obviously travelling faster than me to catch up, but then feel like they want to do the same speed, preventing me from changing lanes when I approach a slower-moving vehicle in my lane. It makes their intentions (and therefore their potential actions) unclear and dangerous. I don't care if you want to be in front of me or behind me, just don't actively block me, dammit!

"Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this sounds a bit like you're holding station close to the side of the other car - if you're in the lane to the right of that car, you should be travelling faster than it to complete an overtake; if you're travelling at the same speed (or wanting to travel at the same speed) you should be in the same lane with an appropriate gap."
Nooo... (why did I look back on here?). I see a vehicle in the inside lane moving slower than I am and, when there's a gap and before I get too close to the vehicle, I move into the middle lane and start to overtake it. Unfortunately, there is a fuckwit who doesn't seem to grasp the basics of motorway driving who was in front of me and behind the slower vehicle. They seem happy enough, sitting there behind it, and then, just as I get about level with their car, they start to indicate to pull out. I am moving faster than them and the slower vehicle (because they waited until their noses were on it's bumper before going "oh... duh... I want to overtake this...". I'm not sitting on their rear, I'm in the process of driving past them. Whether or not they've seen me is anyone's guess really, because if they can't see well enough to notice a fuck-off lorry getting closer and in front of them, who am I to guess if they use their rear view mirror?
[grin}
Anyway, since leaving this thread and returning I have had a jaunt on the M25. I can confirm that, contrary to what was declared earlier on this thread, all three lanes were not so jammed with traffic for the whole journey that it wasn't possible to overtake correctly.

When I'm driving, I always assume that everyone else is as thick as shit and completely obsessed with their own journey. I expect them to undertake, tailgate, pull over without indicating, be feeding their children biscuits over their shoulder whilst driving at 80, be on the phone and applying lippy.
So that's why I don't get angry when driving, the majority out there are so much better than my expectations of them. I usually come home quite relaxed.

FGS, this is ridiculous. You don't signal while changing lanes unless there is space/opportunity to move. You just dont.
Wait til its clear, THEN signal. Grr.

Well said RobotHamster!

Its mirror - to check its safe to move
Signal - indicate your intention to move
Manouvre

Not
Pootle along with indicator flashing, while stream of traffic passes you on the right, each of them wondering if you actually intend to change lanes or if you've just left your indicator on.

SilverApples - haha, yes. The best bit of driving advice I ever got was 'assume everybody else on the road is a complete moron and adjust driving accordingly'

What amuses me and baffles me at the same time is people on their high horse saying "they shouldn't be in the middle lane, they should know their highway code or shouldn't be on the road" when all the while travel themselves on a motorway doing way over 70mph. . .

You know what? I'm going to hid this fucking thread because I drive a lot, all over the country, I'm on motorways every day. If I think too hard about the level of ignorance demonstrated by so many drivers on this thread I'm going to find it very hard to relax behind the wheel. Scared? Yes, they scare me because they are gambling with lives.

Tuppenceinred I could not agree more. Like you I drive a lot on motorways and like you this thread has scared me to death.

Tuppenceinred

I see a vehicle in the inside lane moving slower than I am and, when there's a gap and before I get too close to the vehicle, I move into the middle lane and start to overtake it.

Sorry, yes I did misunderstand.

It's exactly as SilverApples said - expect everyone else to be a moron and you won't be disappointed.

Whenever I'm in a situation where someone may do something stupid (I suppose I'm including myself in that group) I think, "where's my escape route?" Is it braking, steering or accelerating? (The latter isn't very likely unless in a high-powered car or on a motorbike.)

Almost every time I overtake a vehicle on the motorway, I'm expecting them to move into me and checking their head/face in their mirrors or for any other indication that I'm right.

I passed my test summer before last and haven't driven in over a year. This thread is simultaneously making me want to get back in the saddle and take a Pass Plus and stay off the roads forever.

Yep, driving defensively was what my driving instructor advised many years ago. I think that goes double after reading the creative approach to road craft that some take on here!

But I haven't hidden the thread, I'm an idiot!

middle lane hoggers are a pain in the arse,inconsiderate and cause problems for other drivers. They have no knowledge of the highway code and are totally oblivious to what is going on around them.

Yesterday we drove home from France,towing a 26 ft caravan. We can only do 60mph so only use the middle lane for overtaking.We're not allowed in the outside lane.
Some muppet sat in the middle lane for ages. We were going uphill and rapidly catching up with a lorry so needed to overtake.Muppet in the middle was totally oblivious to the fact that we were indicating to pull out,waving,horn-blasting..........she sat there without moving.She could've pulled into the fast lane and let us out,but that manoeuvre probably didn't exist on her planet.We ended up having to brake hard so we didn't go into the back of the lorry.
Then came muppet no.2.............she caused so much mayhem.........most of us ended up undertaking her just to get away from her.She spent more time turning round and talking to her kids than she did watching the road.

years ago when I was learning to drive my dad said that you have to drive for everyone else....and you do!

As a learner this thread is scaring me

I can't ever see a time where I will drive on a motorway but if I ever do I will be doing pass plus first.