or is the nursery?

[sandwichyear]

I know this is a very minor problem in the general scheme of things!

DS is 2, nearly 3. He goes to nursery/ preschool where they take them in nappies, and then help them with potty training when the parent decides it's time. He has been potty training for a while, and it has been a long process, but he is gradually getting there. He is pretty good with wees but less so with poo and has quite a lot of accidents mixed in with some successes. We have tried hard to be completely consistent with him, always putting him in pants rather than a nappy even if it means dealing with accidents plus all the usual things. We discussed this with the nursery and they agreed that was the way to go. A couple of weeks ago we found that they were putting him back in nappies in the afternoon in case he had a poo accident without discussing this with us. I asked them very nicely not to do that any more as I didn't want to give him mixed messages and when he's wearing a nappy he switches off from both wee and poo and it sets him back. They agreed and said they woulnd't do it any more. Then I went to pick him up today and he was back in a nappy. I queried it (very very nicely) and the teacher said they had discussed it at the staff meeting and decided that they couldn't be expected to clean up after him if he had an accident as they had too many other kids to focus on and would be putting him in nappies in the afternoons until he can go on his own. I totally understand that it is hard work being a preschool teacher and horrible to have to clean up poo, but I was annoyed that they hadn't discussed this decision with me and feel as though its' really giving him mixed messages and stalling his potty training and undermining what we are doing at home. AIBU? I know that this is a totally obnoxious thing to say but they charge a huge amount for this preschool if that makes any difference either way!

Thanks v much!

Agree with everyone else. Totally unreasonable to expect a nursery to do this. They should have told you though. Your child isn't ready.

If he's truly ready, it shouldn't take him more than a week or two to get to the point where accidents are rare.

It doesn't sound from your OP that he's anywhere close to that after a much longer period. Time to stop stressing yourself and him and everybody else out over this.

Pull-ups are a good compromise, but I'd honestly suggest going back to nappies for now and trying again in a month or two.

Don't worry, he won't be wearing nappies when he's 10, and potty training before 3 is still quite young for a lot of children.

Agree with everyone else. Just try going back to nappies for a couple of months, take the pressure off, and then when he does it it'll just happen

yanbu for nursery not to discuss with you but yabu to expect staff to deal with daily poo accidents - he isnt ready yet. buy him some pull ups & try again later.

Potty training should only take a few days, a week at most otherwise they just aren't ready.

What fairlylea said.

The thing is, for everyone saying that it should be quick and easy, this child has had mixed messages for a while now, sometimes nappies at nursery, sometimes not. So I don't necessarily agree that accidents mean that he's not ready. I only used pullups a couple of times with DD when potty training and found it set us back each time (e.g. she would be fine in the morning, everything in the potty or toilet, pullup on for an afternoon trip out in the car, then accidents for the rest of afternoon/evening). DD's first potty training day in nursery resulted in 9 accidents. Nursery didn't complain once, just got asked to bring a spare pair of shoes as it's not their job to clean shoes and clothes that have been soiled. DD took 2 weeks to be reliably clean, and didn't ask for the potty until day 7. So I think the nursery WBU to put nappies on and perhaps have made it more difficult all round.

If he's consistent with wees but not poos, that suggests he doesnt want to poo on the loo rather than he's not ready- i.e. he knows he needs to go but doesnt want to do a poo on the toilet. What's he like at home? Is it just a nursery thing? My ds was pretty reliable re wee (we did the 3 day bootcamp over a wt BH weekend) but took some time persuading him to poo on the loo, especially public loos (we had to do the whole potty then loo thing which i really wanted to avoid). However, once he found it wasnt scary or painful, he was fine, but those two weeks were quite stressful. I guess my point is that there's a difference between not being ready to potty train (ie. a child not knowing they need to go in time) and knowing but not wanting to, for whatever reason. With poo fear, I think it's best to just address it. I was so close to giving up and then suddenly it just clicked.

What I would do if at all possible would be to take 2 days off work, go back to basics and nail it over a long weekend.

Thanks so much everyone for your replies.

Interesting that it is pretty unanimous that he isn't ready to potty train. I have heard this thing about kids taking a week to potty train before, but that doesn't seem to be true for the kids I know in real life (DS's friends) who all have regular accidents a few times a week. Maybe none of them are ready? (they are all around the same age- 34-36 months)? The thing is, that he does really well with wees and generally doesn't have accidents except occasionally and I feel like it would seem a real shame to just give up now and lose all that achievement (and I think probably bad for his self confidence too as he is very proud of himself for achieving it) though totally willing to accept I'm wrong here.

I guess I should talk to the nursery about it and see what they think is the right thing to do overall. I am upset that they didn't talk to us about it as I feel as though it undermines what we are telling him at home and gives him mixed messages, but totally willing to accept we are pushing this at the wrong time.

Thanks again everyone. Lovely to have the wisdom of more experienced parents!

Richmanpoorman sorry somehow didn't see your post when I wrote mine. Yes, he is pretty good with wees (the occasional accident, maybe once or twice a week when he's deeply absorbed in a game or similar) but I think overall pretty good. I definitely think he had a fear of pooing on the potty/toilet, but he is starting to overcome it at home and has had a few successes, which is why I feel as though this is the wrong time to stop as he's just getting the hang of it. But I could obviously be totally wrong here and also U to expect the nursery to participate in this.

Thanks v much

Well the opposing theory of course is that we all leave it too late in the west (encouraged by cheap disposable nappies) and that it makes the transition harder. Very few children here in China are in nappies by 2.5 yrs. My nanny blames me entirely for DS's poo reticence and is putting DD (12 mo) on the potty whenever she gets her "poo face" on which is apparently the right way to do it- they get used to pooing on the potty early so no biggie when out of nappies. I'll let you know in 12 mo whether her theory is right. If she is, I'll quickly write a book and make a fortune.

ps. with the poo I just bribed with Chuppa Chups.

Hey, it worked.

YANBU to think the nursery should have discussed it with you first - totally wrong of them to have just decided in a staff meeting!

Occasional wees in pants once or twice a week is totally normal in 2-3 year olds, even if they have been trained for a while. Even a very occasional poo accident.

However, if it's been more than a couple of weeks and he is still regularly pooing in his pants, then he isn't trained. I would take a week off and work intensively at getting poos in the potty. It's not fair to carry on like this expecting nursery to deal with poos.

Put him in pull-ups - they're a great compromise and he can carry on being encouraged to go to the toilet but it's no big deal if he forgets or doesn't make it.

I know a lot of people don't like them because they think that children 'need to feel when they're wet', but I don't hold to that. Children need to learn when they need to go - if they're wet, it's too late!

When we potty trained DD (although admittedly this was before she was two) we put her in pull-ups and regularly asked her if she needed the toilet - putting her on if she said yes, but not worrying about it if she had an accident. She was dry within a few weeks for both wees and poos. We only ever had a handful of wee accidents and have never had a poo accident and there was no stress whatsoever - for her or us.

I full recognise that all children are different, but if he is having that many accidents, it can't be very pleasant for him, so it's worth a go.

YABU. It sounds like he is not ready for potty training. The nursery have other children to care for and can't be constantly cleaning up your little boy. Also, it can't be good for his confidence to always be having accidents. You could go at his own pace with trainer pants etc. They are BU for not having discussed it with you though.

I just wanted to say. My DS is almost 2 and 8 months and has been potty training since April. He still has accidents and has only recently started asking for the potty and even then it's hit and miss. Lots of people have told me not he's not ready but we decided (Along with the nursery who were happy to continue) that it would be a step back to start using nappies and so we have carried on. I don't think it's true for all kids that they will get it within a week - they all have accidents. Obviously the later you start the quicker they pick it up but there are some people who do Elimination Communication (ECing) for months and months and don't see a dry day until their child is 2 or even older so you should do what you think is best with the knowledge you have of your own child and not get stressed by the chorus of 'it's too soon'

That said - back to your question about the nursery... they should be consistent and they are being unfair. I would insist that they keep up with the method you have chosen.

Who is gaining by a child having accidents regularly for 4 months though? nothing is being achieved so personally it just seems a waste of time of effort to do it that way.

IME it is fairly unusual for a child to potty train in a week or two and then never have accidents. Some do, but most 2-3 year olds continue to have occasional wet pants or go through phases, especially when they are at nursery or busy.

Poos are usually easier though - poo accidents are psychological thing or an upset tummy rather than lacking the ability to control them.

I think both you and the nursery are being a little bit unreasonable. The nursery is unreasonable to agree to do something to your face but then do something different behind your back. However, I think YAB an bit U to ask this of them because it does seem pretty obvious that your DS is just not ready. It would be better to just go into pullups for another 9 months or so then try again when he's a bit older.

I'd suggest training pants - he should be able to wee as usual and still feel like a big boy, but they will reduce the mess from pooey accidents.

YANBU to think they should have discussed it with you, especially after you requested he not be put in nappies. That said I can understand why, if his accidents are regular, they would decide it was better to have him in a nappy.

Perhaps, so as he is not thinking he is in a nappy and thus being set back, you could provide a pair of training pants for the nursery to put him in? That way he would feel like he was still wearing pants but it would be easier for them to change him if he does have an accident?

Thanks everyone:

Re: pullups- in his mind these are exactly the same as wearing a nappy. he doesn't find them any easier to get on and off and when he is wearing them he goes into 'nappy mode' and just doesn't think about going on the potty at all, so it's effectively the same as just giving up. Not saying that giving up is the wrong thing to do, just that this wouldn't be a halfway house for him.

he has always found wees much easier than poos. Not sure if this is normal or not as I know it is 'supposed' to be the other way round. I feel like it would be really tough to give up on all potty training completely after we have got this far, but really don't know. There is another teacher at nursery that I really like and is very experienced and I totally trust her judgement. I would like to ask her honest opinion about the whole thing but don't want to look like I'm undermining the other teacher's decision. ARgh!

Thanks v much anyway.

I think it is understandable of the nursery, with staff ratios etc.

Trainer pants might be the way to go because they look more like normal pants, the child will feel wet in them but they would hold an accident in for a short while.

It took me a while to fully potty train, my DS was somewhat resistant to the idea but he had to be trained for pre-school (at 3 yrs). I also knew that he knew when he needed to go, had done for ages, just preferred nappies and to be able to carry on with what he was doing.

I found trainer pants really took the pressure off as did gently reminding him to go to the loo at regular intervals or when he looked like he needed to go (clutching himself, walking funny.) But he was trained well enough before preschool.

sandwichyear I would keep going and ask the nursery to do so too.
My DS has only in the last couple of weeks been asking for the potty for poos and saying 'poo in there' - his weeing has always been much better.

What turned it around for me was a consistent reward system where he got something he really really likes but is not often allowed (in his case a couple of monster much) every time he asked for and used the potty.

one thing that has occurred to me. Do people really feel that potty training is totally different from other skills that kids have to learn in that it is always a quick one off, and then done, as opposed to the way in which they learn other stuff- how to walk, how to eat with a spoon etc in that it is a long process that they need to practice over a period of time. Maybe it's just my son, but every skill he has 'mastered' has taken a while and involved lots of trial and error and practice over weeks or months- is potty training really totally different? (happy to hear that it is but it seems odd nonetheless...)

Thanks v much!

sand that is an interesting point...but some kids do most things in one big go....

My DD was trying to walk before she could coordinate and stumbling around for 2 months straight...her cousin sat around until he could just stand up and walk straight off. Similarly with crawling...DD would do this straining grrnrnrrnnn noise while she tried to drag herself around...her cousin just loafed until he could crawl easily.

To cut a long boring story short...I suspect we will have an accident prone nappy training over a month and my sister will get her DS done in a week.

On the other hand we get more choice over this one...if we don't take here out of nappies then she won't get to practice...hmmm

DD is currently 26 months and cannot apparently work out if she has pooed or not...even though it seems to take her a good 5 mins of hrggghhing every time .