to think the diet industry is utterly evil?

[ICBINEG]

been watching 'The men that made us thin' and am simply overwhelmed.

So diets don't work....most people end up heavier than if they had not dieted at all...one guy was like "well duh! if they worked we would lose our customers"....another wrote a book aimed at teenage girls including the advice to " buy scales and keep them secret from your parents"

The constant stream of adverts aimed at middle aged women are seen by children who by age 6-7 have self-esteem issues and can quote the number of calories in most foods...

My evil-ometer is broken.

Diets do work!!!! I did SW in 1994 lost 4 stone and have kept the weight off and am actually a bit lighter now.

The problem is people can't be bothered, they don't have the will power, are too lazy and want a quick fix hence all these cowboys pop up promising them things which really, if we used our common sense, we would know it's all crap.

I used to teach aerobics and work in a gym and saw it all the time - people would come in all fired up, desperate to shift some weight, give em two or three weeks and you never see them again, they arent happy with losing a pound or two a week (which is the perfect weight loss), they again want a quick fix.

Common sense, Willpower, consistancy, staying power is the key - some people can do it and some just can't and make excuses.

I tried every fad going untill I did SW although in my heart of hearts I knew the answer, stop eating so much crap, get my arse off the sofa and move more. It ain't rocket science but sadly we are becoming a lazy nation looking for a miracle cure that ain't there.

I think it depends on how much you want it. Do you want to look/feel better or do you want that bit of cake more. we make a choice at the end of the day and if it happens to be the wrong one well, we can't blame anyone but ourselves.

Oh but I do blame the diet industry.

The only way you will lose weight and keep it off is to make long term changes to your food intake / energy expended.

By selling thin air, hope, dreams, and low fat high sugar crap, the diet industry is MAKING THINGS WORSE!

I can and do blame them for that.

They obscure the really important message...on purpose.

And as for that shit with the 'hid your scales from your parents'...well...I'd better not say what I am really thinking.

Good post Betty

I'm a bit gobsmacked at the hide the scales from your parents thing, I must admit.

Imo every home should have scales and people should make a habit of weighing themselves once a week/once a fortnight.

All this 'chuck out your scales' shit hasn't helped anyone I know who's overweight.

Damn right betty, and well done for changing your life for the better.

I saw an advert for nicorette on a van today...

It said 'mouthspray yada yada..helps with cravings' and then next to that "Willpower required"

I don't know if it is a joke or their advertising gimmick ...but either way it made me think of this thread.

betty what role did the SW play in your losing weight? What did you get for your money?

Diet plans don't work. Will power works.
I've done sliming world, I've done WW, I've done lots of different diets. Most of them promote eating crap. WW encourage you to but their cheaply processed products, SW encourages as much as you like of this or that on different days. or used to.
Eat less, eat good food, exercise more.
If you do WW for a year, and lose 2.5 stone, how much is that per pound weight at £5+ a week?
Join a gym instead.

Worra, the trouble with home scales is
A/ they are usually highly innaccurate,
B/ its easy to become obsessed with weighing yourself if you have weight issues.
Weight can vary by several pounds in the course of a single day.

Okay I am launching the ICBINEG health plan.

On the plan you write down all the meals you have plus snacks in a week.
You write down all the exercise you do in a week.

Every week you do two things:

1. Choose a meal or snack and replace it with something healthier (where healthier is defined in the way you would think (veg good, refined sugar bad) but also with an eye to eating a sensible total number of calories a day)

1. Add 10 mins of exercise somewhere.

Repeat for 6 months.

After this time you will be eating a balanced, healthy calorie controlled diet and be doing at least 4-5 hours exercise a week. Which you can simply carry on with (make no further changes) or continue to tweak the exercise /calorie balance to slowly adjust your weight up or down.

ICB - I had no idea at that time about food, nutrition or anything really so it gave me my food options.......it taught me how the body breaks down certain foods, what is the correct amount of say fibre, fat, carbs, protein etc etc.....it made me aware I was not alone, safety in numbers and all that and for me, the thought of getting on the scales every week in front of someone else, well, that was a massive boot up the arse to focus and lose weight every week. I started in Nov 1994 and by May 1995 I had lost my 4 stone.

Of course, back then, I didn't have the internet (did anyone?) there were no phone apps so it was either a slimming club or keep doing crappy fad diets that don't work. If I hadn't joined SW then goodness knows how much I would weigh now, makes me shudder to think about it.

Let's not forget, yes SW and WW are businesses and so of course want the money BUT I wanted to be slimmer and they gave me the perfect tools to do it.....knowledge!!

I keep myself in check these days, I now log on MFP daily, I gym daily and lead a very healthy life......hence I look and feel better in my 40's than I did in my 20's. I get lots of comments like ooooh, it's ok for you, you are slim......and I say, yes I bloody am but I work hard at it, like anyone could if they wanted it enough.

Interesting thread.

I mainly agree with Tidydancer. A few years ago I lost a lot of weight with WW and have kept it off. I had joined umpteen times before and it never really worked because I didn't stick to it. Last time, something clicked in my head and I finally realised, really realised that I couldn't eat what I wanted and be slim and neither can most people. If I wanted to be slim then I had to make some serious changes and it was entirely my choice.

The diet industry couldn't do that for me, it had to come from within but I found the framework, social aspect and support I got from them invaluable. They were really encouraging, I could ring my leader any time and there was no element of them wanting me to fail. I personally needed the structure. It taught me that I could have the cake or the wine but unless I wanted to go over my points, I couldn't have both. It taught me restraint and balance.

While the WW ranges were available in the meetings, I never bought any of them and there was no pressure to. I ate real food which I cooked myself.

The problem is most people see weight loss as a short term thing but you have to change the way you eat forever. Very slim people do not eat the same way as very big people. Go back to your old habits and you will regain the weight, it's not rocket science.

I think the government has as much to answer for as the diet industry. They still peddle the low fat, high carb guidelines that as discussed already, have a tendency to lead people towards crap. They really need to look at these again.

But ultimately, all the good food is still no magic bullet. If you eat too much good, nutritious home cooked food, you will still gain weight. Neither is exercise, as the old cliche goes, you can't outrun your mouth. Most of the work has to come from diet.

Finally, isn't starvation mode a bit of a myth? Yes, your basal metabolic rate does slow down if you dramatically reduce calorie intake over a long period but you also need fewer calories as your mass reduces. An 8st person will need fewer calories to maintain their weight than a 10st one. Also, I thought the reduction in BMR was temporary and it settles again once you eat to maintain.

Anyway no, I don't think the diet industry is evil. Money grabbing maybe but they are providing a service many people want and succeed with. You don't have to buy any of their products.

betty so do you think SW has anything to add beyond MFP these days?

Coz that's free isn't it?

"The problem is most people see weight loss as a short term thing"

Yes and the reason most people think this is because of the advertising mechanism of the diet industry.

Why else would someone think a quick fix is possible other than the hundreds of ads everyday telling them that it is?

Adverts saying 'just take this supplement' 'just drink our milk shake' 'just join SW, WW', 'IT'S EASY!'

That is why explicitly they are evil.

ICB - Personally for me at that time in my life I needed SW because I needed to weigh in in front of someone else to actually motivate me to be focused on a day to day basis. If you are a self motivated person then nowadays I would say once you have that knowledge of what foods you should be eating then MFP is just as good. However, with MFP you need to know what you are doing as it won't tell you that.

For me now, MFP is enough to keep me focused and I find it a brilliant site and yes, just as good as SW, the friendships are just more virtual than real :)

WW should have to put on a disclaimer for their adverts...

"Yay look at me I am so slim after joining WW. It's so easy and you can get the first month free!"

NB: terms and conditions apply. Your weight can go up as well as down and the vast majority of members weigh more than when they signed up

betty the weigh in guilt thing...I think it can go either way. I am competitive so it has helped having a weekly weigh in (on MN of course) but others find the fear of failure is damaging and a bad weigh in can really really put a downer on you and lead to binging.

betty and icb I have a friend who is using SW for the same reasons, she can't seem to do it alone. She's under no illusion though that if she 'doesn't get a grip' (her words not mine) its never going to work. I think some people need the regimen.

Yes, I am very competitive too so for me it is a plus.

I understand what you are saying about it leading some people to binge but I think if you are of that mindset then you need to deal with your food issues rather than join a slimming club as that would just be adding fuel to the fire. I used to be a binge or starve person and if I was being "good" on a diet and then say had a small treat, I would think I had fucked it up and then go on a royal binge for days. Thankfully, I managed to over come that hurdle now and accept that I am only human, I cannot go for the rest of my life never indulging again so really, anything in moderation is the key. If you have a blow out, thats fine but just get back on it straight away - that is what works for me now.

Eagle - I feel your friends pain, and yes, at that time I definitely needed the added pressure of weighing in with other people.

Maybe its because I have no willpower, and don't want to blame myself, but I really don't think it is solely down to the person if they don't keep the weight off. The physical elements of why we are fat, and why we stay fat have an impact and that means we have to fight nature every day. Its fucking exhausting to argue with yourself and your cells everytime you want to eat something.

As well as the metabolism thing that someone reiterated from the programme upthread, there is also the fact that once you have created fat cells, they never go away. Apparently they just empty and then sit there empty and demand to be filled. How do you as a person (i.e. your mind and your willpower as opposed to your physical being) compete with your body clamouring to fill your fat cells every day? There is a very small percentage of people who can.

Also, I don't think you can put it down to the diet industry on its own, as other people have said, its the food industry as well. They want to make money out of you and they want to do it on the cheap and so fill us up on crap.

Another thing, there is food absolutely everywhere. Commuting was absolute hell having to run the gauntlet of the station concourse containing pasties, donuts, bagels, burgers, sweets, sushi, pizza, chips - anything you can think of. Yes, of course, it is my choice to put the food in my mouth, but the odds are really stacked against me quite frankly.

I've done diets, first one when I was ten. I am fat. It is unlikely to change unfortunately.

Saggy I get what you mean about the weighing obsession...that's why I said once a week/once a fortnight.

If someone is unable to do that for whatever reason then you're right...scales are not for them.

But imo for everyone else they should be used.

I've lost count of the amount of people I know who say 'The weight just crept on'.

I imaging that's a combination of no scales and wearing loose clothing.

I think the diet industry is exploitative but I'm not sure it's any more evil than any other purveyor of dreams in absolute terms.

I do think there's something to be said for the group approach for some people even if it's just initially but succeeding long term for most people means hammering home the simple tenets of eating less, eating healthily and moving more long term.

No need to pay anyone for that insight.

I think following a sensible diet does work. It's all the ridiculous, unsustainable, lose two stone in a month, diets that don't work, because they're not sensible and they're not sustainable.

Cutting down on fatty, sugary and starchy food; not relying overly on processed, convenience foods; and understanding about portion control is the best way to lose weight. Exercise will tone you up and keep you fit. The two combined make for a healthier lifestyle.

Eating nothing but soup or energy shakes for a week might see a dramatic drop in weight for a few days. But there is no way you can continue with a regime like that for longer than a week so the weight will also be back on in a few days.
Also trying to stick to ridiculously low amounts of carbs or calories is unhealthy and only leads to food cravings. Cut down not out and allow yourself a bit of slippage now and again.

I have to say, I am sometimes shocked at some of the advice I see being given on the diet threads here. Some low carb fans seem to go to extremes advising other posters not to eat any fruit or even small portions of pasta or potato with their dinner. Definitely most of us eat too many carbs which contributes to weight problems, but virtually eliminating them from your diet is also unhealthy. Everything in moderation - and that should include dieting.

betty the weigh in guilt thing...I think it can go either way. I am competitive so it has helped having a weekly weigh in (on MN of course) but others find the fear of failure is damaging and a bad weigh in can really really put a downer on you and lead to binging.

How do you know people aren't talking utter, utter bollocks though?

A weekly 'internet weigh in' is not a weigh in at all.

MNetters could be tucking into a fry up and lying that they've just lost another 5lbs, due to their 'healthy eating'.

Meanwhile, other people feel really bad because they haven't lost a thing and have stuck rigidly to their healthy eating plan...thus leading to them binge eating.

I really don't see what difference there is between a WW weigh in and an internet one...other than the WW is guaranteed to be honest.

DarkesteyesThu 08-Aug-13 23:50:34

www.quarterlife-health.com/?p=3521

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DarkesteyesThu 08-Aug-13 23:57:05

What is in the above link happened to me I lost 7 stone in 7 months and developed gallstones. (i lost ten stone in total with SW) i had my gall bladder out at 29. The surgeon told me it was due to losing the weight too quickly.