To think that if your answer to complaining about Bedroom Tax is "get a smaller house", you are a bit thick?

[MarmaladeTwatkins]

Where IS this glut of smaller properties, just waiting to be filled by people being stung by the bedroom tax?

TWICE today I have heard supposedly intelligent people say "Well if they don't want to pay the bedroom tax, they need to move to a smaller house."

Fucking depressing. I think it earmarks you as being a bit hard of thinking if that is your solution. :(

Try finding a property, any property that is wheel chair accessible?

Fortunately my carer stays over so I avoided this but if he didn't, or I didn't have a carer I would be moving to somewhere 1 bed roomed which the council would have a legal obligation to adapt. BTW that's your council tax money being used.

The whole point of me moving here is because at some point I will be using a wheel chair permanently, and at that point the only thing that needs changing is the height of a kitchen worktop.

I have no idea how much it costs to adapt a place but let's assume it is a bungalow designed for an older person and built in the 1960s.

1. all the doors need to be made wider, including the outside doors
2. there must be level access tot he front door or a permanent ramp
3. all plug sockets have to be raised by about a foot unless they are above a kitchen counter 4)All light switches must be lowered so that they can be used from a sitting position
4. the kitchen needs to have lower worktops
5. there must be room to maneuver a wheelchair so that may mean widening hallways and making sure there is room to turn a chair in the living and bedroom.
6. Windows - these need to be able to be opened from a sitting position
7. The bathroom needs to be altered, it might not be possible to install a wet room so it may involve electronic seating.
8. the heating, whether a fire or a boiler and thermostat need to be lowered.
9. the outside space at the front needs to be accessible so that I can get from my car to my front door.

At the moment I have some short term contracts so I am not reliant completely on HB and I hope to get a full time job soon.

I am immensely grateful to all of you who are paying various taxes, thank you.

But would you rather your tax paid £10 a week to keep me in my home until I am earning enough to pay my rent or for all the adaptions.

I've noticed a number of media reports are focussing on the lack of smaller properties available are using 'empty' properties for their numbers. I think the key is not to focus so much on empty properties, but to set up a system for mutual exchanges, where both properties are vacated at the same time and swapped. Problem is, most people aren't willing to move into a property like that as it won't be to their taste and they won't want to do any decorating once living in it. Also, unfortunately, with our council at least, with a mutual exchange you need to be prepared to carry out any necessary repairs yourself as you are agreeing to it whilst agreeing to the exchange. This needs to be addressed, or the 'market' will remain as stationery as it is.

Why is it ridiculous for teenagers to move schools because their parents get a cut in benefit? That is exactly what people in work who do not live in council housing do all the time if their work relocates or if they can no longer pay their private rent. Council tenants are not a protected species. In fact they are considerably luckier than most considering they have secure tenancies and much lower rents. I get really fed up with all this news about them like they are sacred cows when they are just being exposed to what private tenants and mortgage payers have had to deal with for years with absolutely no help or sympathy from the government/taxpayer.

Well I am not a council tenant but I have taught secondary school and I do always do my level best to avoid moving any of my DCs when they reach secondary age.
I know sometimes it cannot be helped but it can have a drastic affect both on their grades and their self-esteem. Teenagers, esp boys who are moved from their comfort zone can see their confidence plummet.

So, yes, of course it is unavoidable occasionally but rather than exempt the elderly, there's a far greater argument for exempting those with children between the ages of 7-16.

I would always do my level best.

Why is it NOT ridiculous?!

It is a key-time in a child's life, with exams looming and the foundations for solid friendships having being laid. Plus, a child has a right to stability, whether parents are on benefits or not.

I would turn down a job or be reluctant to move my son away from school if he were at this stage in his life. I don't see why a parent on benefits is not also able to make that choice for their child, or are their children lesser than ours?

Lower rent is a massive fucking red herring. It is not low rent if you are on a low income. It will take a massive chunk of that person's wage to pay rent to the council. It's not like they are earning 30K+ and paying a low rent, is it?

I'm sick of the bedroom tax, its just a policy to demonise the poor and vulnerable and make them even poorer and demonised than they already are.
I would rather see an end to lifetime tenancies and replaced with biannual reviews which assess the tenants right to continue with the tenancy and the rate of rent applicable. Low income and unemployed people would remain eligible to keep the tenancy at the current subsidised rent. Higher income tenants would have the option to renew their tenancy at a rate in line with local private rentals or hand back the keys and find somewhere else to live. This policy would free up low cost housing for those that really need it as higher income families would be more likely to move on.
It Wouldn't be very popular though.

Why would you have 2 kids and 1 on the way in a 2 bed flat?

I'm in a new build 5 bed house, HA. It's gorgeous. Looks like I will have to downsize as dd is off to uni.

No 4 beds either!

If this is aimed at me its a ONE bed flat actually, the same reasons why anyone has more than one kid, the people in 2-3 or more bed houses are there only BECAUSE they had kids! They didn't get it as a single person did they? So you can ask that about anyone, the reason why they are moaning is cos there kids have moved out so no longer require the rooms!! MY KIDS are here now!! So pointless saying "why have them" the 2 older ones are twins for your information after being told I would never be able to have kids, was hardly going to abort because of my living situation was I?! What a pathetic reason to abort.. And the one on the way well sorry love not all contraception is 100% affective should of aborted this one too? Some people!

filee777 I agree that family planning should take account of how much space you have and how you will accommodate your family. Having more than 1 child in a 1 bedroom flat is quite selfish in my opinion, unless you have a concrete plan to be able to provide more space for that child/ children before they arrive / outgrow their cots.
No point in complaining that the council won't give you a big enough house when you chose to overcrowd your existing accomodation. Why not wait until you can private rent / buy a big enough property before having 2, 3,or 4 children? I don't buy the argument that 'the Council should rehouse me because I chose to keep having babies and now I have no room for them'.
I'm against the bedroom tax though for my reasons stated in my above post - but the sense of entitlement that people have towards getting a bigger council house is quite distasteful.

Heffalump - regarding upsizing

Surely that means that a load of people with good incomes lucky enough to get council properties in good areas will simply upsize to get bigger homes - after all council rents are less than half market rates.

I know someone in central London, plenty money, will now be able to swap for a really big property?

If that is the case - that you are allowed to upsize - it's another policy not worth the paper it's written on. Won't free anything up for anyone except the rich.

council housing isn't just there for those who have a family filee

Filee the big family debate is nothing to do with the bedroom tax. Big families aren't going to lose their homes. This should apply to empty-nesters only.

and its the tenancy you own....so you may get one as a single person then get married...you DO absolutely have the right to exchange a small place for a larger one.....you keep the tenancy for life if you like,you can then move to different properties wherever you like....keeping your original tenancy. you may then,in later life,move into council sheltered accomadion...with the same tenancy you had when you started out

people who don't understand social housing make themselves look dim when they comment and obviously know nothing

Well I know that I would personally prefer to see family being given a 2-3+ bed house, than to see one single person rattling around in it... But I guess everyones different!

Soulsister if the tenancy is for life, do you not sign new contracts when you move into a different place? How does it work legally?

I think people who afford their children less personal space that we would a prisoner are 'dim' myself but there we go!

People who need social housing should get it, but forcing your own children to live in cramped conditions so that you get a bigger house is just awful awful behaviour

In reality the number of smaller properties is scarce. I am in a two bedroom house which I got because DS is autistic and needed safe access to an outside space. Prior to this though. Was told my chances of being allocated a property was scarce to nil because the number of smaller properties just are not available.

When I look at the home swap websites people want 3-4 beds and sometimes 5. They are nearly always n 3 bedroom houses themselves ....it is rare that anyone is looking to downsize.

I won't ever need a bigger property as it is just me and DS.

If you had enough children to merit a 4-5 bed house then you wait years for rehousing.

well the whole country is suffering 'cramped' conditions filee so best get used to it....look at classroom sizes,NHS waiting times,etc....housing is just one of many. prisons included!

you can take your tenancy from council,to HA and back again....from Scotland to cornwall. you just have to find swappers for it. its not too difficult.

Not one LA or HA in the entire country has reported an issue with getting people subject to this rule who are eligible to live in a smaller flat to move into one,plenty have reported a lack of smaller properties.

Many people currently in a household that is subject to the under occupying deduction are not actually able to be housed in smaller properties due to the differences between the allocations mutual exchange rules and HB rules.its very possible for a household to get the charge but not be eligible to be allocated or have a smaller one approved.

For a home swop to work both tenants require a reason for the change.the one in the smaller property needs to fit the criteria for the larger one to be approved and the one in the larger one needs to fit the criteria to get the smaller one approved.

It only works (in the context of the HB rule)if the one in the larger property no longer has a need for it and the one in the smaller property needs a bigger one so mainly older people whose children have left home wanting to downsize but in many cases they are either exempt from the rule so not fussed by it or its not going to be long before they are so can suck it up until a birthday.

The people in flats struggle to find exchanges though...everyone wants a garden in my area.

Well I know that I would personally prefer to see family being given a 2-3+ bed house, than to see one single person rattling around in it... But I guess everyones different!