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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that if your answer to complaining about Bedroom Tax is "get a smaller house", you are a bit thick?

388 replies

MarmaladeTwatkins · 06/08/2013 10:41

Where IS this glut of smaller properties, just waiting to be filled by people being stung by the bedroom tax?

TWICE today I have heard supposedly intelligent people say "Well if they don't want to pay the bedroom tax, they need to move to a smaller house."

Fucking depressing. I think it earmarks you as being a bit hard of thinking if that is your solution. :(

OP posts:
SillyBillly · 07/08/2013 01:31

Night Night work in the morning

Mimishimi · 07/08/2013 01:33

YABU. There isn't a glut of smaller properties but there is a glut of families who need larger ones. I think the idea is to get the long-term council housing beneficiaries who don't need the larger properties anymore into the private market for smaller units. It's a bit thick to think you are entitled to a lifetime of subsidized public housing and get to choose the size of it forever. They're lucky they are just getting 'taxed' for the extra space rather than kicked out altogether.

Runningchick123 · 07/08/2013 07:02

I totally agree with silly billy about people who are now 'on their feet'. I Mentioned this idea very early on in thread as there are lots of people in social housing that could afford to pay private rent levels.
I will say it again; social housing tenancies should be reviewed every two years and people who have managed to earn more money and are significantly better off financially than they were at their last tenancy review should be given the option of either staying in the property and paying rent in line with similar private properties or handing back the keys and moving to a private let or buying their own home. This would encourage those who can afford to live away from social housing to do so and free up the properties for those on lower incomes or reliant on unemployment benefits.
The 'bedroom tax' is unfair and harsh to the most vulnerable in society. Moving on people who don't actually need the lower rental properties will help to reduce the shortage of social housing. I have a family member living in social housing who was in desperate need when he was allocated the house, but now his household income exceeds £4000 net every month and he lives up north so could afford a private rental or a mortgage in his area, but he has no aspiration to move because his current rent is only £100 per week. It just seems wrong when there are families in genuine need of that property.
I Don't think that this is a prejudiced idea, its just a solution to the current housing problem which instead of attacking the most vulnerable with unfair reductions to their benefits would encourage those in better financial positions to take more responsibility for their housing situation.

IneedAsockamnesty · 07/08/2013 21:06

Mimi,

How is social Housing subsidised?

thisisyesterday · 07/08/2013 21:23

what gets me is this:

my friend has a 2 bed flat, which she moved into, while pregnant, after separating from her dickish ex.

she now has to pay bedroom tax because her daughter is young enough to share a room with her Hmm

soooo,.. if she doesn't want to pay the bedroom tax she has to apply to move into a one bed place, and then when her daughter is older she can apply to move back into a 2 bed one.
it's fucking insane

FamiliesShareGerms · 08/08/2013 07:06

RunningChick - your suggestion gets my vote

Mimishimi · 08/08/2013 08:35

If you are not in the private market paying current market rents and the coucil owns your property having purchased it with public funds, you are being subsidised by the public.

dirtyface · 08/08/2013 08:46

runningchick

its not that simple. dh earns ok money (28k) and i have a very small business that doesnt yet make much. and we are in council housing. we are ok, cos the rents reasonable, we can afford a few treats and dont struggle

but if we moved into private rented our rent would double to get a decent house (the same as what we have got) so we would be completely broke. plus we would have the constant worry of the landlord deciding to chuck us out

and believe me i would LOVE us to buy a house. but as he "only" earns about 28k we cant get a mortgage. and also we have debts we are paying off so our credits not great, which i guess is our own fault but still a reason we cant get a mortgage.

so yeah, not that simple really. we would love to buy but despite earning decent money we are still priced out the market

the answer of course is for private rents to become more affordable and secure and for houses to stop being silly money.

jchocchip · 08/08/2013 09:00

Is it time for more market regulation on house prices? How can values double in a few short years? If successive govts hadn't been so desperate to avoid a crash there would have been a readjustment by now. Runningchick your relative could be saving up to buy a house with 'cash'!

Runningchick123 · 08/08/2013 09:28

Dirtyface plenty of people on 28k or less have mortgages. It really depends on where you live as in London I appreciate that 28k is not enough to get anywhere decent in the private rental or home ownership markets, but up north and in most areas away from London you can get a house for that. It's more the case that people want to buy houses that are out of their reach, they don't want to start at the bottom of the housing ladder and they don't want to forego any luxuries to be able to afford the mortgage.
We are a single income household with my husband earning roughly the same as yours yet we have a mortgage which costs considerably more eah month than we would be paying in social housing - but we don't have foreign holidays, brand new cars or eat out a lot, we still have a very good life and provide plenty for the children.
You can get a decent house in many areas for less than 100k which is doable on a salary of 28k. It's just a case of postcode snobbery and wanting the perfect house in a lot of cases - London and some South East areas being the exception.

filee777 · 08/08/2013 09:37

For social housing to be less secure, private rents need to be more secure.

noddyholder · 08/08/2013 09:47

Did anyone hear the phone in radio 5 i think last week where a couple fairly elderly in council housing wanted a downsize as they couldn't cope with 4 beds cleaning heat etc but there was nothing for them but they were still being charged for the 'spare' rooms The tories have made such a f up of this as it is badly thought out and rash this is because they have never had the feeling of insecurity in where they live and so ride rough shod over everything they have no experience of I truly hate them and their pathetic divisive policies

dirtyface · 08/08/2013 09:48

i wish we could runningchick

honestly, we have looked. we dont want much. just a small 3 bed. we are not bothered about living somewhere with a better postcode, would be happy owning on the council estate i live on now. its got a rough reputation but its fine, decent schools, kids are happy here, nice neighbours.

we don't even live in the south either, we live in the midlands

plus dh is 42 so reckons his age will go against him as well, plus the last few years we have moved about a lot so don't think the banks would like that much either

as i said, i would dearly LOVE to own. i wouldnt care about forgoing luxuries. it would be worth it to finally have a roof over my head that is MINE

:( really gets me down

ALittleBitOfMagic · 08/08/2013 09:53

Ime there are plenty of smaller properties people are just too picky . I've got over 30 matches on home swapper and not one person will take it . Mainly because its a flat . They all want a bungalow .

JakeBullet · 08/08/2013 09:54

You also have to add in the fact that actually getting a mortgage now is difficult. You tend to need a good deposit and an exemplary credit history too. there are lots of people not in that boat for various reasons.

You also have to factor in work....no use looking in the North of England for housing if your work is in London and you cannot transfer.

noddyholder · 08/08/2013 09:56

Maybe where you are alittlebit but why should older people not want a bungalow Being less financially well off does not mean you should have NO CHOICE!

JakeBullet · 08/08/2013 09:56

Flats are terrible for swapping magic as my friend knows only too well. She is stuck in a two bedroom flat but nobody wants it as she doesn't have a garden.Sad

She needs a garden (on mental health grounds as she is severely agoraphobic) and might be fortunate enough to be re-housed on those grounds in the near future. she has been on Home swapper for two years now and nobody is interested.

InMySpareTime · 08/08/2013 09:58

I may be missing something obvious here, but why can't people share in social housing? When I was a student I shared rented houses with (usually) two other people. That way we took up one three-bedroom house rather than three one-bedroom flats, and saved a lot of money.
Is it against HB rules for single people to house share? Surely that would help the situation, and free up lots of one/two bedroom properties for I.e. young families or couples.

riskit4abiskit · 08/08/2013 11:51

It seems clear to me that a solution should be to build more one bedroom based retirement villages, which could range and be adapted from independent to assisted care for all residents. There could also be larger buildings for people who end up needing 24h care, but they would still be able to stay in the same community. Thus larger properties could be freed up and older people could downsize to a community where their later care needs could be met without the soul destroying move to having to go into a care home for the individual and relatives concerned. Obviously not all older people would want to move to such an area, but it would be very attractive to many without families, yhat are lonely etc

riskit4abiskit · 08/08/2013 11:51

Also agree with the sharing argument too!

IneedAsockamnesty · 08/08/2013 11:55

noddy

They were not elderly or if they were they lied.

Over 61's are exempt from the rule

expatinscotland · 08/08/2013 12:27

Taking in lodgers is against many HA/council tenancy agreements. This was probably designed to cut down on fraud or overcrowding.

And what Sock said, anyone age 61+ is entirely exempt.

practisedsmile · 08/08/2013 12:39

Our LA is Camden - they are suggesting to council tenants that they could take in a lodger (lodger advice), so not all LAs are against it. It's best to check with your own LA/HA as they will all have different policies. It does affect your benefits though, and of course not ideal for all families.

JakeBulletI've been on Homeswapper and found it unhelpful for looking at swaps - the information you can put on a profile is really limited, and the search function is poor. I found an exchange through an independent council housing swap forum, set up my own basic website where I could put on the information that I wanted, including lots of photos. I had a flat with no garden which usually isn't in demand, but the selling points were a very central location, nice area, huge park nearby, excellent transport and schools - I couldn't put any of that information on the Homeswapper website. It's as if they think that the basic information (bedrooms, garden, central heating, rent) is the only information needed to make a decision about whether you'd want to move (and that beggers shouldn't be choosers...)

noddyholder · 08/08/2013 12:41

They were definitely older and not working.

practisedsmile · 08/08/2013 12:43

Actually I've just found this which suggests that lodger income wouldn't affect benefits from October 2013. Also says 'Council tenants have the right to take in lodgers as long as they don?t breach overcrowding rules. Under their tenancy agreements housing association tenants can usually take in lodgers with the landlords? consent.' It is from a specialist social housing website and they are very knowledgeable about housing law and regulations.