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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that if your answer to complaining about Bedroom Tax is "get a smaller house", you are a bit thick?

388 replies

MarmaladeTwatkins · 06/08/2013 10:41

Where IS this glut of smaller properties, just waiting to be filled by people being stung by the bedroom tax?

TWICE today I have heard supposedly intelligent people say "Well if they don't want to pay the bedroom tax, they need to move to a smaller house."

Fucking depressing. I think it earmarks you as being a bit hard of thinking if that is your solution. :(

OP posts:
Hawkmoon269 · 06/08/2013 21:02

Expat - this idea that home owners can just rent out their homes to someone on hb and rent somewhere cheaper to live... That's a tough one. Private rents are much higher and I can understand why people would be reluctant to rent their home out.

This thread has made me feel very far removed from people who are in council homes. And it's made me sad. For many reasons.

I do think it's another world and some comments just make me think - but WHY are you entitled to cheaper living than other families who work just as hard and own a property?

As I've said up thread, I only know 2 families (out of everyone I currently know) who live jn council houses. So I'm out of touch. But it seems to me to be a lifestyle that is "normal" to lots of people on this thread and that's weird to me. I know I'll get shouted at but I'd be utterly ashamed if I had to rely on the state IN ANY WAY to house me (including living in a ha house) unless I was ill or a carer. Its just not on my radar. I've always assumed that I had to work very hard to find my own life and extra hard if that involved children.

Hawkmoon269 · 06/08/2013 21:06

And also, the "private owners can rent their homes out" argument isn't so far from "council house renters can downsize" argument in that both require huge upheaval and moving costs.

expatinscotland · 06/08/2013 21:08

How is it complaining to point out that this is how the system works? A BTL LL who lets the place to an HB tenant gets their second, third, what have you home bought partially or entirely by the taxpayer.

That is the truth.

There's so much, 'They get their rent for FREE,' and nearly none of the ire towards those who get an entire asset they get to keep paid for free, too.

And you're right, they are not a charity, but a business being subsidised by the taxpayer.

expatinscotland · 06/08/2013 21:10

'And also, the "private owners can rent their homes out" argument isn't so far from "council house renters can downsize" argument in that both require huge upheaval and moving costs.'

They have an asset, Hawk. The renter does not. At the end of the mortgage term, they will, if all goes well, own the asset. The renter will not.

THAT is the huge, great, major difference.

The renter does not and never will have the option to let out their place or sell it.

expatinscotland · 06/08/2013 21:11

'I do think it's another world and some comments just make me think - but WHY are you entitled to cheaper living than other families who work just as hard and own a property?'

So none of those people 'works hard'? Hmm

Hawkmoon269 · 06/08/2013 21:12

Yes, but btl ll's are investing money in property. It's legal. I've been a btl ll (I'm not now) and I was very young and used my own money that I had earned myself. It wasn't an expensive property and I was young, keen and living in a shared house eating baked beans to make it happen.

Buy to let landlords are not doing anything "wrong" and I don't like the jealous subtext of "ha tenants are paying their mortgages off". Property is an investment for some people - just like shares, bonds, premium bonds... I just don't see the problem.

BeehavingBaby · 06/08/2013 21:13

As someone who frequents the choice basses letting pages weekly, I can't help thinking that the aim is to achieve as much movement as possible within the social housing sector in order that houses are made available for letting at 'affordable rent' rates ie 80% of local market rate for a property that size. Unfortunately the net is spread so wide when calculating this (ie to include prices for 3 bed houses in good condition, not on a council estate) that even the 80% rent is often ludicrously over priced and therefore only attractive to prospective tenants confident of receiving near to full housing benefit on a long term basis.

Hawkmoon269 · 06/08/2013 21:13

A lot of home owners have very little capital in their properties. Especially after the crash.

FamiliesShareGerms · 06/08/2013 21:13

Hawkmoon, you have just articulated in your 2102 post how I have felt reading this and other similar threads. I lived in a council house when I was very little, and I clearly remember my dad telling us when we moved into our new house that he wanted us to live in our own home. I appreciate that I am lucky to earn a decent wage and be able to service a mortgage, but I don't think that I would ever want to have to rely on anyone (husband, family or state) to put a roof over my head or my children's.

BeehavingBaby · 06/08/2013 21:14

Also the new social letting trend is for renewable non lifetime tenancies but in general extended until the youngest child in the family is 18 in my area.

expatinscotland · 06/08/2013 21:15

'Buy to let landlords are not doing anything "wrong" and I don't like the jealous subtext of "ha tenants are paying their mortgages off". Property is an investment for some people - just like shares, bonds, premium bonds... I just don't see the problem.'

They are not doing anything illegal.

But you don't see the problem in the taxpayer buying a second, third, what have you property for one person, yet you have a big problem with others 'living cheaper' via HB or lower rents than the ones who are getting those properties purchased for them by everyone else? Hmm

The taxpayer doesn't buy individuals premium bonds or shares. That's the difference.

Hawkmoon269 · 06/08/2013 21:15

And anyway, if they have so what? When their mortgage ends they will end up using most if not all if their equity on paying for their care in old age. Does that make it fair?

PlotTwist · 06/08/2013 21:18

In some places it's not much cheaper. Rents for a typical 3 bed semi on my HA estate £100pw, rented terrace just a few streets away off the estate £104pw.

Hawkmoon269 · 06/08/2013 21:19

I don't really understand your point expat. Is it because housing benefit (from the state) is paid to buy to let landlords?

The state has to subsidise rent for people who can't afford to house themselves independently. It would be great if the state owned council houses and private landlords or companies were not involved. But that's not the system.

I don't have a problem with landlords or private property companies making money. Especially if they are paying tax and spending that money in the UK.

Hawkmoon269 · 06/08/2013 21:22

Thanks families

It's the desire to stand on your own feet that I feel is missing sometimes because living in a council/ha home is "normal" for so many. Poverty of aspiration?

BeehavingBaby · 06/08/2013 21:23

Council rents are often the same or more around here plottwist too, the security is the only perk.

expatinscotland · 06/08/2013 21:24

'And anyway, if they have so what? When their mortgage ends they will end up using most if not all if their equity on paying for their care in old age. Does that make it fair?'

All of them, really? Everyone is also a UK resident? How interesting.

Nothing makes it fair for taxpayers to buy multiple properties for one subset of people, and that includes MPs.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 06/08/2013 21:25

Any one of us could lose their job tomorrow and then be unable to find another that pays much, and be glad of a council house.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 06/08/2013 21:26

However much we 'desire to stand on our own two feet'.

expatinscotland · 06/08/2013 21:26

'It's the desire to stand on your own feet that I feel is missing sometimes because living in a council/ha home is "normal" for so many. Poverty of aspiration?'

So someone who works as say, a nurse, in a place like London and can never afford their own property has poverty of aspiration and no desire to stand on their own feet? Seriously?

Living a council/ha home is not 'normal' and smacks of poverty of aspiration?

Hawkmoon269 · 06/08/2013 21:27

Sorry, I don't want to upset anyone. I just really do find the acceptance of financial help from the state really depressing. Any financial help. I'm all for the state providing generously when people are in need. But that's not really how it works it seems.

I was actually quite shocked that I'm eligible for tax credits. I don't need them so why am I eligible? I'm really not rich. I live in central London, it costs a fortune to live here and I am frugal and careful. But I have a roof over my head and food on the table so why should I be eligible for state help?

This is a tired observation, but this year our family holiday is 3 nights staying with family in Devon. Both families I know who are on benefits (no adults working) are going away for a week abroad - both have 3 children. That just seems wrong to me. And makes me think they're getting too much "help."

Hawkmoon269 · 06/08/2013 21:28

fanjo I couldn't agree more! I'm so grateful to have that option as a safety net. Not as a way of life.

opilo · 06/08/2013 21:29

Why do people keep calling it a tax when it so clearly isn't.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 06/08/2013 21:29

You don't upset me.

But your viewpoint is very naive and sheltered to me.

expatinscotland · 06/08/2013 21:30

What Fanjo said.

Oh, here we go again! The good ol' 'holidays' thing. Biscuit

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