To think that if your answer to complaining about Bedroom Tax is "get a smaller house", you are a bit thick?

[MarmaladeTwatkins]

Where IS this glut of smaller properties, just waiting to be filled by people being stung by the bedroom tax?

TWICE today I have heard supposedly intelligent people say "Well if they don't want to pay the bedroom tax, they need to move to a smaller house."

Fucking depressing. I think it earmarks you as being a bit hard of thinking if that is your solution. :(

Maybe it is that simple. those in hostels and temp accommodation deserve to be homed too, so maybe those that have benefited from the help of S/H and councils and are now on their feet should move on to private rent or purchase a property,why do they feel they have a right to stay for life.

'so maybe those that have benefited from the help of S/H and councils and are now on their feet should move on to private rent or purchase a property,why do they feel they have a right to stay for life.'

The problem is that they are not 'on their feet'. They are in receipt of HB, because they are unemployed, under employed and/or disabled.

And, well, I've spent time on this thread explaining. Private landlords often cannot or will not accept tenants on HB, for a number of reasons the chief of them being that often times their lender forbids them from letting the place to tenants in receipt of HB. And, when they can, the caps are greater than the HB the tenant would receive if in a council/HA property, so there is even greater expense for the government.

And these are the ones who are not disabled and require a property suitable to their needs, often that have been modified at council expense: ramps, hoists, doorways and worktops to accommodate wheelchairs.

Anyone over 61 is exempt, regardless of their net worth or work status. Anyone who pays their full rent can stay put.

So we are talking about the most vulnerable people already, not people who can swan off to a private rent or purchase a place.

And even those who can pay their full rent in a council/ha place are often not able to afford a private let without then having to claim HB as they are low-income, low-paid, zero hours contract workers.

So here we go again, the problem of finding a landlord to rent to them. And then the problem of the short-assured tenancy, so then, possibly in 4 months, that person finds him/herself facing homelessness again, trying to source a private landlord to accept them and their HB (this is not even acknowledging that many private landlords are 'no children') and come up with the first months' rent, deposit and moving costs.

If unable to do so, they wind up . . . guess where?! On the homeless register again.

80% of those claiming HB are in work! What does this say? That things have gotten out of control, people.

But let's just blame the poor and working poor, not those who made this happen, who are, as pointed out, often still getting a very luxe home full of bedrooms paid for the taxpayer by renting it back.

cantspell last time I filled in a hb form, I had to say if the ll was a relative. I questioned why it mattered, and was told I couldn't get hb if they were

HB will not be paid to a family member I'd that family member lives in the property OR it can be proven that the tenancy has been contrived to take advantage of the benefits system other than that it will be.

I think you are under informed as not all tenants are on housing benefit, they may have been previously and at that time social housing met their needs. Please dont give me the unemployed or under employed crap as there are lots of jobs out there for the willing but most are not willing, their money would be made up from either income support or tax credits. Why should the over 61's be exempt or full rent for that matter, these homes were designed to help those that needed help not help those that want to abuse it and help themselves. The bedroom tax would be better replaced with means testing including savings, Makes me sick when i see people struggle and their neighbour in a S/H home disappear halfway round the world on 2 weeks sunny holiday, Wheres there need for S/H there.

Silly.

No she is not uninformed as the actual topic we are talking about that being under occupancy deductions are ONLY applicable to those getting HB.

And she has probably forgotten more than you will ever even know about this subject.

And housing benefit (the method they use to implement the under occupancy rules as its only HB claimants who are subject to it)

Is already a means tested benefit

A friend of mine has just downsized as she is out of work and on benefits. She joined up to the homeswap site - she got swamped with exchange requests as there are so many people wanting to upsize from 1 and 2 bed properties and she had no hassle at all exchanging to a smaller property to avoid the bedroom "tax. She lives near Manchester, if that helps the conversation.

Again though, it appears many people with larger houses won't consider swapping to a flat or maisonette, so they are saying there are no small er properties when what they mean is there are no smaller houses.

Whothefuck - Is your mum registered on "homeswapper" website? If not, tell her to register, she may find an exchange that way. I bet if you put her area in and look for 1 bed properties there will be a few on there looking to upsize. Good luck to her!

Those who are not in receipt of HB are not effected by the 'bedroom tax', reduction in benefit, Silly, nor is anyone age 61 or above. That's not misinformation, that is fact. And this thread is about the bedroom tax/reduction of HB for those in receipt of it, last I checked.

Sockreturningpixie
Actually its you thats missing the point. As if these that can support themselves and are in social housing move on they will make room for the people that need smaller properties and then they will not need to be affected by bedroom tax and more places for those in hostels to have better housing.

And she has probably forgotten more than you will ever even know about this subject.

You dont know me so dont assume to know my level of knowledge, if she has forgotten that much that would explain your need to be so rude.

The point is, Silly, they are not affected by the bedroom tax and if many of them moved they would then need to claim HB on a private let, providing they could find anyone to take them.

mumtobealloveragain.
Good on your friend she is setting a good example and helping to resolve the issues whilst helping sort her own issues.

She gets a big thumbs up from me.

The point is, Silly, they are not affected by the bedroom tax and if many of them moved they would then need to claim HB on a private let, providing they could find anyone to take them.

You assume that many of them would need to claim HB, this is not the case there are plenty round here earning 40k plus and living in S/H. They just live the good life and dont give a shit about the struggling. Its just plain wrong.

Then campaign to have the rules changed to include them and everyone age 61 and over, too. See how that goes over like a ton of lead bricks.

This reduction targets those who are least able to pay, and jobs are not plentiful in some of those areas. They cannot 'just move' for the same rules that allow private LLs and their lenders to discriminate against those who are in receipt of HB and those who have children. 'No DSS, no children.'

IneedAyoniNickname you were told wrongly as there is no rule against renting from a relative and getting hb as long as it is not a contrived tenancy or the relative lives under the same roof.

From shelter

live in a property owned by a family member - can I claim housing benefit?
If you live in a property owned by a family member and pay them rent, you may be entitled to housing benefit. However, this will not be the case if you (or your partner) are responsible for a child and are renting from the other parent of that child.

The council will also want to check:

that you're paying rent on a commercial basis. In other words, that it's a proper tenancy, not just an informal arrangement between family.
that the arrangement has not been set up in order to take advantage of the housing benefit system - this is called a 'contrived tenancy'. For example, if your landlord only asks you to pay rent when you are not working (and so are eligible for housing benefit), but not when you are working (and earning too much to claim housing benefit), this would be a contrived tenancy.

Silly,Its fairly safe to say that your knowledge on the subject is very limited given that despite being on a thread about the subject and many posters highlighting the fact that only people who are in receipt of HB are subject to the under occupancy rule,you have still failed to grasp it.

YABVU for calling it 'bedroom tax' when it's nothing of the fucking sort.

Left-wing bullshit at its best.

Silly,Its fairly safe to say that your knowledge on the subject is very limited given that despite being on a thread about the subject and many posters highlighting the fact that only people who are in receipt of HB are subject to the under occupancy rule,you have still failed to grasp it.

I think I know enough as I live in the second largest housing estate in Europe and have done my whole life. It seems you fail to grasp it, Ill type very slowly so you can keep up. Those that have had S/H and are now well on their feet ie: earning a good wage as I said earlier should move on to private letting or property purchase making way for those that need the homes and can be housed suitably to max effect and avoid paying bedroom tax.

I've come back to have a look at this thread from earlier and really impressed that MNers have remained pretty civil, measured and full of info, irrespective of their point of view. Can I just add a bit more...whilst it would be great if each and everyone of us held a professional position full of remuneration, self-worth, etc there will also always be a need for the 'paid assistance' that ensures that both privately and publicly toilets are cleaned, rubbish is disposed of, children are cared for,etc. If it's decided that these jobs are unnecessary the whole pack of cards falls down, if the people that undertook these necessary jobs were paid as equally as those that currently are paid enough to be 'self-sufficient' again it would all fall down because there wouldn't be enough to go round.
Whatever your point of view, there will always be a need for the lower paid to have somewhere cheaper to live than the higher paid.

Float62,
Well Said its just unfortunate that some of those that have been helped and come through the other side refuse to move on and make way for others that need that help. Instead it turns to greed and they sit in there s/h and hold up those in cramped conditions and hostels.

I think I know enough as I live in the second largest housing estate in Europe and have done my whole life. It seems you fail to grasp it, Ill type very slowly so you can keep up. Those that have had S/H and are now well on their feet ie: earning a good wage as I said earlier should move on to private letting or property purchase making way for those that need the homes and can be housed suitably to max effect and avoid paying bedroom tax

Why would they need to avoid paying the under occupancy housing benefit deduction ( the clue being in the name) they don't have to pay anything or get anything deducted from a benefit they do not receive.

Because only people in receipt of HB are subject to this rule, those earning a good wage would not qualify to receive housing benefit because HB is a means tested benefit.

Those not in receipt of HB are exempt from the legislation.

Your getting there, So if S/H was means tested and those not on H/B and sufficiently earning were moved on instead of being S/Hd for life this would make way for those in more need of homing. There would be more properties available and more likely that those in properties with spare or unused bedrooms would be able to get smaller more suitable homes, therefore avoiding bedroom tax.

given that I am talking about the actual rules what with that being the topic of this thread, and you are talking about your own imaginary made up do not exist but you think are rather good ideas rules,its no wonder we are missing each others point really.

The under occupancy deduction and means testing the actual social housing tenancy as opposed to the HB are totally different subjects.as things stand at the moment there is no requirement for someone to be eligible for HB to get a LA house. But it could make for an interesting conversation,

Might I surgest (if you interested in that subject) that you start a thread titled,

Aibu to think that we should stop social housing from being a self funding via rental income system and change it into a tax payer funded welfare benefit with means testing system....

Could be quite entertaining.

Sockreturningpixie

You pulling my chain or what. Nothing is off thread its a disscussion about bedroom tax and the fact that it only affects H/B claimants. My support is for those having to pay it and reasons why they cant find accommodation. I suggest you take your head out of where ever you've got it stuck. If you don't like what Ive written I suggest you start a new thread, "does anyone one have any suggestions on how to remove my head from a dark lonely place. lol