What exactly is the advantage of circumcision and why is their such insistence?

[FrigginRexManningDay]

I was watching 'What to expect when you're expecting' last night and one of the male characters was insisting on circumcision for his unborn son,which turned out to be a girl.

One of the reasons he agreed with was making the penis less sensitive. I don't understand the reasons behind it. AFAIK its not healthier or cleaner. I understand it being done for medical reasons of course,but it just seems unnecessary to be so routine in America.

"Religion" = to mark out as different
no other reason

I have had a few ahem boyfriends in the past, some were circumcised but as I am in UK most were not. I had one boyfriend who had been circumcised who was very traumatised by it though. It had been done badly and he had scarring. It seriously affected him. He did feel like he had been mutilated.

I had another boyfriend who had a circumcision for medical reasons while I was seeing him. He didn't think it was a big deal. It was back in action after four weeks despite the dr advising at least six

The fact is that even if the procedure was as easy to perform on an adult as it is supposedly on a newborn I imagine there still wouldn't be many men queuing up to get it done for aesthetic reasons/prevent cancer or HIV/ to make it easier to keep clean or any of the other bollocks reasons people come up with.

1. beating children with psychiatric or chromosomal disorders to 'cleanse them of the evil'

1. send them down the mines to put food on the table

No time soon. Perhaps you would like to pen that graph, I'm not sure that sort of data is available, especially from 1000 years ago (oh dear). Every single Jewish family I know and know of has circumcised their sons. When someone doesn't it is unusual.

hypothetically, if circumcision was made illegal, i wonder how many jews would be willing to risk prosecution to have it done and how many would be quite relaxed/relieved about letting it go? leaving aside the mad lubavitch frummers in my family, i would think that many liberal jews of child bearing age would tend to the latter?

Your social examples have no relevance to this discussion.

Well that's rich, siding with sam who thinks that anyone opposed to circumcision must be a Jew hating, Muslim hating fascist!

I don't know why I read these threads as I find them extremely upsetting. I have the most wonderful, kind, caring mother, who my brother would agree is as near to perfect as a mother could be. My sister-in-law and cousins are the nicest, gentlest, warm human beings and fantastic mothers. My husband, brother and father would all be very upset by not being circumsised. i think of all the amazing people I have in my life who are being called evil. It's far more than religion, its our culture, our history and it is the core of who we are. i am a nice person, I am kind and caring and as a result have lots of close female friends of varying religions and cultures. . if I am lucky enough to have a child and it is a boy, it will be circumsized. i am not evil.

Ravelstein, why is that an interesting idea? You are setting criminal law and religious law against eachother, what is your point exactly?

You are missing the point entirely. My point is that these propaganda images offer a completely distorted view of the procedure. Resorting to them as an argument only goes to evidence your agenda, and your lack of knowledge of what it actually entails.

ICBINEG _ the number of religious circumcisions is increasing in the UK, and of course this trend will continue for the forseeable future as the orthodox Jewish and Muslim communities have a relatively high birth rate, making up for those such as Mrs R who drop out. A record percentage of Jewish children is at Jewish schools, as well....

He not it

Why do they have no relevance? Why? Sam talked about her son fitting in in Jewish society and how he would feel ostracised if he wasn't circumcised. The social scenario is, in fact, exactly the same.

Sorry that was to Fellatio.

hmm what could be kinder than removing someone's foreskin without their permission?

How about NOT removing someone's foreskin without their permission.

Why not allow your son, should you have one, to grow old enough to make his own decision to accept your culture and religion at which point he can have himself circumcised if he wishes?

Namechangingnora, if I told you that I held deep rooted beliefs that girls should only have one ear and therefore felt strongly about cutting one off my baby daughter, you would think me insane. Why would anyone in their right mind want to cut a baby's ear off, you would say. And you'd be right.

Just because generations of people have mutilated their baby boys in the name of religion or culture does not make it right or acceptable.

sam it isn't the total number in the uk that is important, it is the % of practising religionists doing it.

That percentage was presumably close on 100% in the past and is currently down at 90%...and falling....

No not the same. Examples are being given of social change and moral views changing over time. The obligation to circumcise a boy is not a moral or a social fact, it is religious. Access to a Jewish school is not social it is religious.

Mary oh or what about a finger? We could insist that god needs us to remove 1/10 of our girl childrens fingers, in order for us (not the girl - noone gives a shit about them) to get into heaven!

Likewise, Prima, resorting to called those opposed to the procedure, fascist is a weak argument.

Oh that is a smashing idea! Give a Jewish boy a Jewish name, a Jewish family, take him to shul each week, raise him observant and all that time let him feel like he is not really Jewish because he wasn't circumcised. That wouldn't hurt him all would it? Oh yes he can do it when he's older and he's grown up like a cuckoo in the nest.

So because its religious its acceptable. Lets stone the women who commit adultery whilst we're at it!

But religious view are changing....Some jews now eat pork product, hardly ANY of them still do the hair over the temples thing, and 10% of them are no longer circumcising.

This is one way traffic.

Welcome to the post enlightenment world.

But you are making up obligations for Icbinergs religion, what nonsense as a comparison.