This Ramadan fasting ...[title edited by MNHQ]

[Wuldric]

I have a talented and lovely junior who happens to be Muslim. In the last month she has recorded 6 days off sick, and left work early on three additional occasions as she has fainted.

I don't have any personal bias against any form of religion. Well that's not actually true. Being an atheist, I am biased against all forms of religion, But I am balanced against all of them equally IYSWIM. Lest you all accuse me of xenophobia or something, I am not white and was not born in the UK. I am just impatient with this.

She has no weight to spare to start with. She cannot eat until after dusk. Dusk is pretty late in the UK in summertime. So in the evening she eats at 10. She is supposed to eat before dawn rises although my suspicion is that she is skipping this meal, because in her home it takes place at 3am. She is not allowed so much as a drink of water in between times. The offices are airconditioned, but her home and her journey to work are not.

This fasting tomfoolery is making my lovely junior ill. She looks like a famine victim - her face is just gaunt. It is not good for her. AIBU to think this is all nonsense?

"the Egyptians hated it as their summer day lasts basically as long as ours in the UK"

No they aren't! Egypt is on roughly the same latitude as Saudi Arabia so their summer days are much shorter than ours.

Wuldric, what did your junior say when you spoke to her about her weight/fainting episodes?

If she can't perform her work satisfactorily due to weakness from the fasting, you need to require her to take her annual leave at this time.

I may be unpopular here but many Christian people are force to work Christmas and Easter in the UK. Whilst religious acceptance in the UK is a good thing does that not mean all religions????? And yes many members of my family have worked these holiday and have not had exceptions mad because f2f hey are Catholic.

You cannot speak to people about their weight. Not in a work-place context. You just observe (and worry). She just said she was ill. I have not properly discussed this with her. I was building up to an occupational health referral as I mentioned, because it is getting very worrying. All this has been happening over the past 4 weeks, Any longer and I would have made the referral. I couldn't not make the referral in all honesty. I was worrying that I had been negligent in not making the referral earlier.

Marshy (waaaay up thread, sorry), I don't think that trading Christmases is cutting slack. There is reciprocity, everyone's a winner.

However, people seeking understanding tend not to offer reciprocity. "Please cut me some slack, I am fasting because of Ramadan / getting married / have a sickly child / have just had a baby". These are all choices.

Sometimes we are fine to cut this slack, especially when it comes to unwell children. However, mostly we are just too scared or politically correct to say out loud that these are choices these people have made, and that as such they should be first in line to suffer the consequences.

I have often cut colleagues a lot of slack, for various reasons, over the years. However, I have been less inclined to do so when there is an expectation of being accommodated.

Slave, good post, I know many people who work Xmas day because they have to despite their religious observances.

Police staff, hospital staff, cleaners, cooks..........

The world doesn't stop for many people on Xmas day for sure.

(Even Mary and Joseph and the 3 wise men, and the shepherd, and the inn keeper etc were busy donchaknow?)

I work with 85% Muslims and must admit I am somewhat puzzled by the whole thing- especially as its been so hot this year. They all look and feel dreadful and are napping in their breaks etc. Like you I am an atheist but I can't imagine willingly entering into anything that would make me so ill.

Well, on the face of it, ramadan is pretty crazy. I mean there's no point ignoring it, Islam, Christianity, Judaism... They're all taking rules and practices from hundreds/thousands of years ago and slotting them into modern day often with little flexibility. There's obviously going to be problems for people who try and follow any religion to the book in that they just do not fit in with the modern world.

People are of course entitled to do exactly as they wish and I would never dream of telling someone to live their life a certain way, but equally that doesn't mean you can't feel frustrated or bemused at the rigid shackles religion puts on peoples lives when it effects you.

She has fainted numerous times.
She has told you that she is ill.
She is unable to do her job effectively.
Wuldric, why have you not discussed this properly with her?

Thesun - read the thread. Virtually all Muslims commenting on it have said that we handle Ramadan ourselves, function as normal and expect no allowances to be made, particularly as we know how quickly people are to pull faces and think negatively of us.

If folks are wondering why some people on here a getting a bit grumpy, it's because nearly every time there's an AIBU about A Muslim (singular), the Muslims who comment on the thread often agree with the O.P, or explain why something is occurring, yet we seem to be typing in invisible ink as people still talk over us and grumble about "those Muslims wanting allowances blah, blah..."

To summarise: Every Muslim on this thread had said that Ramadan should not be making you faint and that you should not fast if you are unwell. No one has said you should put up with poor work performances from colleagues.

It's been a bit like an elephant in the room tbh. We all know what the matter is. How am I supposed to broach it?

'Dear Junior. You need to eat and drink. Drinking water in particular helps. I know this will offend the god you believe in, but please, just for us, eat and drink'.

OR

'Here is a bottle of water. JUST DRINK IT WOMAN FGS.'

OR

'Dear X. I've noticed you've been under the weather recently. Anything in particular?' 'No'. 'Oh good, just checking.'

FWIW, variants of the last exchange have been happening.

Sideshobob - So glad us Muslims have you to advise us. We don't need your frustration or bemusement, so you are wasting your emotions.

Wuldric - take it to OH, that's what they are paid to worry about.

Can they have a barley sugar or two to keep their energy up?

It does sound a tad harsh I must admit, but i'm just pointing how it the inflexibility in all religions is well, incompatible with most peoples modern lives and was never meant to be taken as many people follow it. I highly doubt ramadan for example was upon its creation intended for modern day muslim's working a 9-5 in the higher latitudes.

GoshAnneGorilla my second post was in reply to a specific question from Marshy. My first post was in response to the OP's original post.

I have not, would not think to and, most significantly, would not be able to speak to every Muslim on this thread, let alone the Muslim faith.

At best, you display your own defensiveness in your post; at worst, you insult me in circumstances where I have chosen my words carefully in order to cause no offense to anyone.

I don't know which part of the country you're in Wuldric but the weather in the part of the country I'm in would have been fatal for anyone who is dehydrated. I could go without food for that length of time, but water, absolutely not.

Apparently deaths have been high. Don't know whether it's the young or the elderly or what.

Just saying.

Thesun, just had to read back a bit there and all I can say is

Actually Wuldric, you don't know what the matter is. You have assumed.

She could be pregnant, be ill or have an eating disorder. I don't know if she is performing poorly because she is observing Ramadan. I do know that you have not been doing your job properly because it is Ramadan. That's not the fault of your Muslim junior or Islam. That's down to you and your unease around Muslims.

YABU.

YABU to project

Sidesho - This thread has been full of Muslims talking about how they feel about Ramadan and how they practice it. Channel 4 been showing daily Ramadan diaries showing Muslims across the UK during Ramadan, so for you to say that Ramadan is not compatible with modern life sounds rather arrogant and ill informed.

I confess to having skipped to the end. Others must have pointed out that there are exemptions for people who are made ill by fasting, with very strong reference to avoiding dehydration. If your junior's fasting is making her so unwell that she can't keep up her job, clearly she's suffering more than she needs to.

I've lost track of how many days are left? But if it's more than a week or so, I suggest you ask her to see her doctor and her imam. Write an explanatory note, if it'll give her confidence to speak with the imam. He would not want her to be incapacitated by her fast.

TheSun - Anyone who mentions being "worried about being politically correct" has not chosen their words carefully, that's standard Daily Mail speak and you obviously haven't read the thread properly.

Monty - Citation please about there being deaths caused by people fasting Ramadan.

GoshAnneGorilla - so, it was the worst. You insult me. A MN first for me.

I understand your defensiveness well, and the irony of it in the context of my posts isn't lost on me.

Nobody's died yet of fasting or maybe they have, would love any statistics.

OP if your 'Junior' is not eating properly at sunrise and making herself ill, then how is it the fault of an entire Religion? I know of many Muslims who are fasting fine this year. Yes it has been hot, yes they are pretty darn long but really, there is no harm if a healthy person eats and drinks properly at the appointed times.

Also you claim to be old enough to be her mum and rather protective of her, then how on earth can there be anything wrong or unprofessional in you pulling her to the side and asking her the reason behind her fainting? I agree with diabolical, it is absurd to say you are so concerned for her when you are clearly so reluctant to do the obvious. You and the rest of the team are rather resentful about having to do bulk of the work it seems, so is that healthy in an office environment? I am guessing she will not have fasted for a week during her menstruation? Did you notice an improvement during any period in the past few weeks? If not then worryingly there could be something else wrong with your colleague and the fasting could simply be highlighting it.

Fwiw I am not a Christian, and whilst working for many years at a particular shop, would always be expected to cover around christmas time. It kinda went unsaid, and I never felt resentful or annoyed but respected the other staff members' rights to their religious holiday and was grateful for the overtime We also always had a little christmas party at the back a few days before closing, and I always offered to go and serve the customers as I would eat with the other staff but not really bothered iykwim- You just do nice things for your colleagues if you really care about them, make allowances for their religious or personal beliefs.
I cannot see why I wouldn't want to help a tired fasting colleague for a month any more than say a tired pregnant colleague for seven, eight months. It is the same to me, fasting is a personal choice as is choosing to get pregnant. My head was all over the place with constant days off during pregnancy and my work colleagues did have to do extra, but I would hate to think at any point they called it all that pregnancy nonsense.