This Ramadan fasting ...[title edited by MNHQ]

[Wuldric]

I have a talented and lovely junior who happens to be Muslim. In the last month she has recorded 6 days off sick, and left work early on three additional occasions as she has fainted.

I don't have any personal bias against any form of religion. Well that's not actually true. Being an atheist, I am biased against all forms of religion, But I am balanced against all of them equally IYSWIM. Lest you all accuse me of xenophobia or something, I am not white and was not born in the UK. I am just impatient with this.

She has no weight to spare to start with. She cannot eat until after dusk. Dusk is pretty late in the UK in summertime. So in the evening she eats at 10. She is supposed to eat before dawn rises although my suspicion is that she is skipping this meal, because in her home it takes place at 3am. She is not allowed so much as a drink of water in between times. The offices are airconditioned, but her home and her journey to work are not.

This fasting tomfoolery is making my lovely junior ill. She looks like a famine victim - her face is just gaunt. It is not good for her. AIBU to think this is all nonsense?

So why is menstruation a reason not to fast? It's obviously sensible that pregnant women and anyone who is ill doesn't, but why would having a period excuse you? I can have horrific ones, but fail to see how this would be exacerbated by not eating and drinking. However bad the blood loss is, it's never going to be enough to make you hypovolaemic.

Thanks for that info Freudian but then, and I may have misread upthread, but isn't this seen as a weakness?

See, we're still asking.

There's another thread about Norway's light, I'm tempted to see if anybody is on there talking of the same subject.

In many places of employment the member of staff observing Ramadam could be taken on 'capabilities' to do her job.

Just saying. Meh.

therealfellatio. We are talking about faith here. Fasting is of the tenets of islam. It is a crucial part of any muslim's faith. It is not something that muslims do because they are beng forced, it is a month that most muslims look forward to.

It is not just about lack f food and drink, it is about spirituality. As posters ave said before, it gives your body time to heal. On a personal note, when it istimes to open my fast in the evening, i feel blessed that i have food, but painfully aware that there are millions who have nothing to open their fasts with - and that makes me want to give whatever i can to charities that feed the hungry.

I get that. I do understand that. But what if fasting is making you ill and unable to undertake your work?

I come from a country with many religious observances that are bank holidays and aren't observed in this country.

I take annual leave to celebrate them.

I know Ramadan is a month long, but still, maybe there should be some agreement.

I am saddened by the level of religious intolerance on this thread. The thread's title alone is demeaning and hurtful. Op, if you have issues with an employee's performance you should take it up her. Disrespecting an entire religion is horrid.

2 issues confused but intertwined, refer her to OH fainting 3 times is not good and being off sick and effecting her performance and health, to be fair I would be pissed off if I got a referal like this as I work in OH, but I understand how we can say it is not ill health it is stupidity on her behalf not her religion, Islam has good guidance on exemptions
a few people have thrown Christmas in here, but traditionally Christians take time off work for that.
as many people have said their are many exemptions for Ramadam, but I get that a young woman would not "get" why she is exempt I worked in ICU for years in a city with a lot of Muslims and found it amazing how families would interpret their unconscious family members faith to the point of even when critically ill, he/she would not want to be fed, they would feel they have failed if they live...
in my early years I used to ask for the family to get the Imam to speak to me when he arrived, I found them primed, they knew what I was gong to say and they all answered like a broken record, I will tell the family he/she is ill enough to break the fast...(and then tell me about other members who would not break their fast mainly men in old age and their worries for them, )that was all the family needed, permission, so their ill family member didn't blame them for breaking their fast, after a few years I became more confident with the different temples and could name the Imam's and what I thought he would say, then get their back up later. they always did, throughly caring people I found.
I had a good friend who was a porter in the hospital I worked in and he loved Ramadam as he got a high of it...don't ask me? but he said he got spacey and enjoyed it and believe me this boy did some drugs! I used to get him a Mars Bars from the machine to break the fast, it was him who told me about the exemptions but how people never felt they applied to them and explained the Mecca time.
I say live and let live but if she is ill then follow your company sickness policy, I think some of your wording was inflammatory but basically you sound caring.

I understand all of that defuse and I am not sure why you directed that post towards me?

Defuse as Wuldric says, yes we get that, and thank you for the education, but it still is worrying when people are incapable of carrying out their work. And not just that actually, but also threatening their health and wellbeing.

I am not a Muslim Monty

but if you are unwell in ramadan why is that a weakness would fasting really make a fit healthy person ill? i doubt it but the thought of it might make many feel uncomfortable not something i would rush to do i do not have the discipline though i have done in the past

fasting does strengthen you in body, spirit and mind all religions have some form of fasting

Well, you know I am an atheist. So I am pretty disrespectful of most religions tbh. I consider them all to be nonsensical. And in fact mostly misogynistic in practice. That's my belief system and I tried to make that clear in the OP.

You can believe in whatever you like, of course. As a liberal, I would most earnestly defend your right to believe in whatever you choose to believe in.

But I do worry if anyone takes belief so far that it makes them ill. I have gone a long way to protect my junior, but this is just getting silly now. Worrying and silly.

Excellent post Missy.

I still wonder what happens for Ramadan in Norway. I'm off to have a look.

Wuldric now that you know more, perhaps MNHQ would change the title of your post?

I agree secretswitch I find the OP's thread title deeply ignorant and offensive. The Junior in question clearly has an underlying health issue and should not be fasting/have booked leave to fast. A healthy person that is eating the Ramadan meals correctly does not faint. You cannot proclaim something that millions have done for centuries without any harm to them as "nonsense" based on your sample of 1.

Genuinely not wanting to cause offence, and happy to change the title by replacing 'stuff' with 'nonsense'.

As long as my belief that it is all nonsense is respected :)

I have in my time worked across all those nonsensical christian festivals. I have also worked across all the jewish festivals too :) I've probably worked across all the buddhist festivals but I just didn't know when they were.

I dont think there is anything "horrid" about disrespecting a religion, as long as they are disrespected equally.

And I do not get time in lieu or paid overtime (unless you are offering?).

I was in Egypt at the last Ramadan, I'm talking temps of way over 100 degrees and the Egyptians hated it as their summer day lasts basically as long as ours in the UK, the had no water no food in that time, I suspect this is bloody dangerous, I know I wouldn't starve nor dehydrate myself for any religion, but that's just me.

Just call it 'Ramadan and Work' or something.

I've pm'd you.

TSC, I mentioned the point about other religious observances or lack thereof upthread. (Keep up )

It's an interesting thread for sure.

Certainly have!

It was a bit unexpected but I had no religious objections or anything. It's just that in the UK it is a bank holiday and people just mostly aren't around.

Me? Only voluntarily helping out with a Xmas dinner for the homeless a couple of years ago. Only for an hour, they were inundated with offers. My dc's came with me (they are teens) and we went home and did our thing. The venue never hosted it again, in fact its closed down now sadly.

The office where I work is closed for a week over Xmas and closes Good Friday and Holy Monday (as the Easter bank holidays are called). Even if it wasn't I would take leave because as a family we celebrate Xmas and Easter. In fact I usually take extended leave over that period to see other friends and rellies.

But that is different to a religious observance where one can only eat during dark (to put it broadly). And I not only recognise that, I respect it.

Btw we were prepared to stay there as long as we were need, so no, I haven't worked xmas day but certainly was prepared to.

Sorry that last post of mine sounded smug and trite.