This Ramadan fasting ...[title edited by MNHQ]

[Wuldric]

I have a talented and lovely junior who happens to be Muslim. In the last month she has recorded 6 days off sick, and left work early on three additional occasions as she has fainted.

I don't have any personal bias against any form of religion. Well that's not actually true. Being an atheist, I am biased against all forms of religion, But I am balanced against all of them equally IYSWIM. Lest you all accuse me of xenophobia or something, I am not white and was not born in the UK. I am just impatient with this.

She has no weight to spare to start with. She cannot eat until after dusk. Dusk is pretty late in the UK in summertime. So in the evening she eats at 10. She is supposed to eat before dawn rises although my suspicion is that she is skipping this meal, because in her home it takes place at 3am. She is not allowed so much as a drink of water in between times. The offices are airconditioned, but her home and her journey to work are not.

This fasting tomfoolery is making my lovely junior ill. She looks like a famine victim - her face is just gaunt. It is not good for her. AIBU to think this is all nonsense?

come on there is a certain amount of bashing as always on a muslim thread

but sorry i did jump on quote

it is not that hard to work out though google is your friend and really its the notion that muslims will do anything the koran has stated, if you read the koran you will see that is it not you have to fast from sunrise to sunset whatever the circumstances

worra I am assuming the OP is a barrister. "Junior" is therefore a work title.

No advice, just hope she's ok.

From what I gathered at the iftari meal I went to, the average adult consumes much more than their daily calorie allowance during their evening meal. I doubt many Muslims would be lacking in calories in Ramadan. In fact my old neighbours always complained of gaining weight in Ramadan. Also recent research has revealed that leaving longer between meals is good for our bodies as it allows the body time to renew cells. Our bodies were not made to constantly graze as is the norm these days.

Your thread title is OTT.

However I work for a multinational company and we have been instructed to make allowances for fasting colleagues. I am not sure quite how I feel about that.

I would think possible pregnancy / an underlying health issue too.

Yanbu.

Salmotrutta - have you not seen my post about what I eat in Ramadan? It's the amount of food and water you eat that's important, not the timings, hence I have never come close to fainting, even when on my feet for 12 hour shifts.

Salmo
That's fine, you can have your opinion, but thousands of people manage to fast those hours with no ill effects. So it can be done, perfectly safely.

Husband's colleague, and they are walking postal staff, ended up in hospital recently due to dehydration and malnutrition .

He swapped his early shifts for nights at the RM hub so he could eat and drink properly. It was by mutual consent.

My tube colleagues regularly swap shifts to accommodate religious practices, and most of the time the favour is returned.

Its managing a situation, depending how you choose to live a life, and sometimes things don't work in your favour. But a tolerant society should give and take. On a personal level, any undertaking for religion should be followed with consideration to those around you.

BTW I'm at worst atheist, but trying to be humanist .

Can they fast those hours and still work effectively?

Are the people you are referring to, people who have zero excess weight to start with?

FreudianSlipper, do you google things rather than ask? Why would you not ask? More pertinently, why are you so grumpy with people asking questions?

I don't know whether or not all Muslims follow the Koran to the letter or not, or if Norwegians have special rules - can I point ut that parts of Scotland are on the same latitude as Norway so do Scottish Muslims adhere to Makkah time too?

Or is that a stupid question too?

My Canadian aunt once asked me what on earth Bonfire night was all about, as is was something she had never encountered.

Funnily enough, I didn't imply she was stupid and tell her that Google is freely available, I just answered her.

For the record, I'm not bashing anyone's beliefs. Live and let live is my motto.

But I'm atheist and just don't understand what fasting achieves. That's all.

I also don't understand what Lent, or confession, or communion achieves.

And I'm interested to hear views on what these things achieve by the way.

i would certainly read up on something before dismissing it as stupid, a waste of time or debate if it is the right thing to do or not especially regarding religion as i know how important it is to people

YABU

I wonder what would happen if someone caused an accident while driving or operating dangerous machinery, or made a catastrophic error of judgement while at work, due to tiredness and dehydration? Surely it's not so very different from the effects of being under the influence of drink or drugs, in that you deliberately put yourself into a mind altered state that compromises your ability to function properly in certain circumstances.

Colditz said "And yes, FreudianSlipper, apparently we are stupid and ignorant and bigoted and anti Muslim ... But not allowed to ask "stupid questions" to enlighten ourselves.

I have never experienced Ramadan in my LIFE. why is asking abut what people do in Norway a stupid question? How can anyone know the answer to that if they don't ask?"

I know some stuff about Ramadam, but was thinking the same thoughts whilst reading some of the posts on here.

The OP sounds lovely and is concerned for the member of staff.

People are just asking, maybe because we don't know, are interested, are impressed and/or want to understand.

Off with the posters slagging off the ignorant but interested people.

Op, you speak of defending a person's right to follow whatever faith they follow, yet you write an insulting title to your op. you talk of not being white or uK born - because that makes you exempt from being intolerant/racist right! iin fact your post tells me a lot about how intolerant you are.

Then you talk of being concerned for your colleague, but havent introduced any measures that could perhaps ease things for her. Please put away your fake concern for her and by the way, though you were quick to declare that you are not from uk, and not white ( because that for sone reason makes you exempt from being prejudiced/racist/intolerant), your post comes across as extremely intolerant and prejudiced.

What about all the times non-Muslim Juniors arrive at work on Monday with stinking hangovers (or bunk off altogether and return on Tuesday)? Or is the fact that they are reasonably upright enough to avoid them being labelled unproductive.

Sorry if the term 'my junior' offends. That is the term used in my workplace. And of course I do feel protective towards her. How could I not? I am old enough to be her Mum and she works for me exclusively.

She's still a woman and your equal.

You're not at work now, so why not call her your colleague?

Her position within your work place has nothing to do with the 'problem'.

I have my own set of prejudices to be sure. I wanted people to know that I do not have an Islamophobic agenda. I am sorry if I expressed that clumsily.

What measures do you suggest that we (I) should have introduced? We have picked up most of her work this last month. I really did hold back from getting HR/OH involved because I felt it was her business. I knew offers of water or food even would not have been welcome. What more could I have done? I would genuinely like to know.

She is my equal as a human being of course, but she reports to me. I am acutely aware that she is my junior in years only.

defuse - I think the OP is exasperated and concerned that her colleague seems to be suffering because of the fasting.

What "measures" should she introduce? It's her colleagues choice to fast surely?

Defuse I concur with that, but I think the Wudric has confessed to her ignorance and made enquiries about Ramadam was slated by some posters. OP sounds like a caring woman to me and was admitting her ignorance.

It's interesting what you say about measures to accommodate this observance, very few employers have policies on this I'm sure. But then very few employers observe other religious festivals except for Christmas and Easter. Interesting.

I will reiterate my first paragraph however, as I have digressed :)

if you are unwell you are meant to stop fasting and make up the time

that is why is many muslim countries as you know business is a little slow in the month of ramadan i guess to take into account you can not always work as hard as you may normally do. how could they prove that because of fasting someone has made a terrible judgement

What about all the times non-Muslim Juniors arrive at work on Monday with stinking hangovers (or bunk off altogether and return on Tuesday)?

That does not happen at my workplace. Absences on Fridays and Mondays are usually red-flagged. People don't skyve. They are hard working and talented and well motivated. It just does not happen in my workplace.

FWIW I am cutting my junior more slack than I would anyone else, on the grounds of her religious beliefs. I am not sure that is fair tbh, but that is what I have done.