This Ramadan fasting ...[title edited by MNHQ]

[Wuldric]

I have a talented and lovely junior who happens to be Muslim. In the last month she has recorded 6 days off sick, and left work early on three additional occasions as she has fainted.

I don't have any personal bias against any form of religion. Well that's not actually true. Being an atheist, I am biased against all forms of religion, But I am balanced against all of them equally IYSWIM. Lest you all accuse me of xenophobia or something, I am not white and was not born in the UK. I am just impatient with this.

She has no weight to spare to start with. She cannot eat until after dusk. Dusk is pretty late in the UK in summertime. So in the evening she eats at 10. She is supposed to eat before dawn rises although my suspicion is that she is skipping this meal, because in her home it takes place at 3am. She is not allowed so much as a drink of water in between times. The offices are airconditioned, but her home and her journey to work are not.

This fasting tomfoolery is making my lovely junior ill. She looks like a famine victim - her face is just gaunt. It is not good for her. AIBU to think this is all nonsense?

So Wuldric why don't you take the matter to HR?

That's true colditz
But the problem, as you say, is a behaviour problem. The fact that this woman can't manage her fasting properly without getting ill doesn't mean that ramadan as a concept is nonsense.
As I say, you are supposed to carry out normal life while fasting. If your job means you can't safely fast then you must either not fast or not work (officially, take leave or similar) nobody thinks it's acceptable for her to go off sick due to self inflicted illness. She needs to manage things better. Fasting does not lead to fainting in the vast majority of people.

If this nonsense wasn't about to stop this week, I would refer her to our occupational health team. I had thought about doing so last week, and today's incident almost made me do it anyway. The issue is that I respect her religion and her right to do whatever she wants to do with herself. Which is why, in a sense, I had held back. Roll on Thursday.

Salmo
Don't forget that official sunset times are before it's actually dark. I just googled and the latest official sunset time in Scotland (admittedly not Orkney) is 10.03pm.
Any highland Muslims who struggle with the hours in midsummer should consult with their religious advisors and decide whether to keep the hours or break the fast earlier.
I really don't see what difference an hour here or there makes though.

It's amazing the amount of ignorance there is about faith. The OP was speaking out of concern. If the girl is fainting she doesn't have to fast. Religion actually forbids people from harming themselves. Therefore diabetics, elderly, weak people don't have to fast. Some people feel guilty and force themselves to fast. One example is my friend who's a diabetic who would rather sleep for half the day and fast. I don't see the point personally, but I understand. When I break my fast as I get quite sick, I feel very very guilty. I don't do it for anyone else but me, no one sees if I fast or not.
As for those being rude about fasting and religion, claiming fundamentalism, well I guess I just need to ignore the comments. Only people with an open mind can accept that we all have different ways of living our lives. And the more educated people will go out and find out the truth behind the myths.

why such stupid questions

I didn't know so I asked ,

Why do you have a problem with that FreudiansSlipper?

So where the cut off point, at what latitude?

Ehric - fasting (dehydration) does cause cystitis...

Here

Several staff have also been complaining and one has broken her fast, the long hours and higher than average temperatures have seem to have made this year difficult.

If she's fainting she shouldn't be fasting. There are many exemptions in Islam as far as I know. I was invited to an Iftar meal and fasted a few weeks ago for the day. It was a v hot day, but it was fine. I even managed to run 5k during the day and in the evening sat down to a lovely meal. It was not difficult at all and speaking to the host family about their reasons for fasting was truly enlightening

I was told they do it for many reasons, for good health, to be able to empathise with those starving around the world, to reflect on the greed and gluttony of western lives, to heal their bodies internally and of course to follow the principles of Islam. I hate reading threads containing ignorant postings. If someone is fainting/diabetic/pregnant then they should not be fasting. They are to blame here. Not the whole religion. Muslims have been fasting for thousands of years. And as for the comment about Ramadan being a go slow month in Muslim countries, it sounds just like my old office in December. Lots of time booked off, people working slower due to being hungover, the whole country at a standstill for days over Xmas.

Regarding the HR issue, maybe in future if this occurs have a quiet but firm word with the staff member. I know as a self-employed person, I wouldn't get away with missing work due to religious reasons, and I can't afford to faint when at home due to having a young child.

I think even as a Muslim there's a fine line between respecting someone's rights and them not performing their duties. I just wish the comments about her performance didn't have to be linked with insulting such a holy month.

Religious reasons aside, I don't understand why people "fast".
Also, I don't know diddly about diets that revolve around fasting. Intuitively that seems wrong to me. Surely it lowers your metabolic rate which is counter-productive?

Why do you do it Ehric? You say it's "lovely" - what exactly do you mean?

I'm interested to know what it does for you.

Salmo - drinking water would make no difference to me, I get hungry, not thirsty when I fast.

Also, during Ramadan evenings, when we are able to eat and drink, I have a glass of water constantly by my side, so tbh, I probably drink more water during Ramadan then I would normally, so I don't have any hydration problems.

I eat a bowl of porridge and a peanut butter + banana sandwich in wholemeal bread with plenty of liquids for my pre-fasting breakfast and a normal meal in the evening - no one's going to starve on that, regardless of timings.

Ramdan is all about tolerance and patience. A lot of mners with intolerant views should perhaps try fasting. It may teach them a thing or two. So, a junior faints and op decides to blame islam and ramadan for it. Nice!

And yes, FreudianSlipper, apparently we are stupid and ignorant and bigoted and anti Muslim ... But not allowed to ask "stupid questions" to enlighten ourselves.

I have never experienced Ramadan in my LIFE. why is asking abut what people do in Norway a stupid question? How can anyone know the answer to that if they don't ask?

Add message | Report | Message poster EhricLovesTeamQhuay Mon 05-Aug-13 23:02:39
It's lovely because it gives a sense of community, common endeavour, we share lovely meals at the end of the day, it makes you think about your own weaknesses and also strengths, it teaches forbearance, patience and mental strength. I really enjoy it.

As many posters have already said, if someone is ill or becoming ill, then they shouldn't fast. That's the religious stance.

Wuldric, if your junior is ill at work, then act as you would with any other staff member who is unfit to do their job. Don't make assumptions about their drivers and make excuses because you are afraid of being politically incorrect. Objective statements about performance with descriptive observations are reasonable, it only becomes offensive when judgements are attached, particularly when those judgements use phrases like 'nonsense'.

Please do ask questions! They aren't stupid. It's stupid to decide a cultural practice is nonsense based on no information then to refuse to listen to anyone's point of view - if that's what you are doing then they are stupid questions. But if you are interested and curious, not stupid at all.

OMG will you please stop referring to her as your junior

She's her own woman and a grown one at that.

Other than that, I feel that no matter what someone's religious faith is, they should never allow it to affect their work...or their colleagues.

Meh, people can do what they like with their bodies.

If it is affecting her work, then raise that by all means.

But it is her business otherwise.

colditz There's no such thing as a dumb question. You should ask. One thing as Muslims, we're quite unaccessible. We tend to keep to ourselves, which doesn't help with a lot of misconceptions, but I think that's slowly changing.
Even I as a Muslim am interested to know what they do in Norway. I'm sorry you got shut down like that.

it was answered people can follow the mecca time

do you really think people would only eat and drink one hour of the day no of course not

and also where did the koran (and the bible) come from. references to way of life is very much in the arab peninsula and the middle east

So, a junior faints and op decides to blame islam and ramadan for it. Nice!

She has fainted not once but three times. And she has had six days off sick in the last month. And she looks very ill. It is of course possible that she has contracted some mysterious virus and her illness has nothing whatsoever to do with ramadan. However the onset of her sickness absences and fainting episodes coincided with Ramadan. I too wondered if she might be pregnant, except I am sure she is not. Knowing my junior, I am convinced that she is pushing herself beyond what she can reasonably do. That is her nature. Mostly that is a good thing, but here it is affecting her health. I am certain she is hurting herself in the cause of religion. That is not good. However much tolerance you might extend to any religion, that is really not good.

Sorry if the term 'my junior' offends. That is the term used in my workplace. And of course I do feel protective towards her. How could I not? I am old enough to be her Mum and she works for me exclusively.

Ehric - that still only leaves about 6 hours between 9.15pm and sunrise to take food.

Then they can't eat or drink for about 18 hours? And this lasts for 30 days.

That's not good for people in my opinion.

My dh is Muslim and has been fasting I have the greatest respect for his strength and resolve, I am not Muslim and regardless to why this girl is fasting (most Muslim I know say they do it to give them a perspective of how people who have no food or water live) I think you should at least respect what she's trying to do and not slag her off on mn!
She has been able to eat from about 9.30 till 2am and its gradually gotten closer to 9 till 2.30 (in the uk) my husband has had a few days where he has struggled mainly down to dehydration rather than lack of food.
I think you should take the time to talk to her about what Ramadan means to her.