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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

This Ramadan fasting ...[title edited by MNHQ]

395 replies

Wuldric · 05/08/2013 22:38

I have a talented and lovely junior who happens to be Muslim. In the last month she has recorded 6 days off sick, and left work early on three additional occasions as she has fainted.

I don't have any personal bias against any form of religion. Well that's not actually true. Being an atheist, I am biased against all forms of religion, But I am balanced against all of them equally IYSWIM. Lest you all accuse me of xenophobia or something, I am not white and was not born in the UK. I am just impatient with this.

She has no weight to spare to start with. She cannot eat until after dusk. Dusk is pretty late in the UK in summertime. So in the evening she eats at 10. She is supposed to eat before dawn rises although my suspicion is that she is skipping this meal, because in her home it takes place at 3am. She is not allowed so much as a drink of water in between times. The offices are airconditioned, but her home and her journey to work are not.

This fasting tomfoolery is making my lovely junior ill. She looks like a famine victim - her face is just gaunt. It is not good for her. AIBU to think this is all nonsense?

OP posts:
fuzzywuzzy · 05/08/2013 23:16

Stay the diabetic patient should not be fasting, their disregard for their health is their personal decision. They clearly need to speak to a scholar to put them right/reassure them.

EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 05/08/2013 23:17

No colditz that wouldn't apply. We have 6-7 hours of night even in midsummer, that will do. The extreme northeners only get this dispensation because otherwise they would only have a couple of hours maximum and that is unreasonable.

EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 05/08/2013 23:17

Oh and Muslims don't like loopholes! It defeats the object. It's supposed to be challenging.

EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 05/08/2013 23:18

Quote - they can follow Mecca times.

LaurieFairyCake · 05/08/2013 23:18

There are always going to be people who take things too far and shouldn't be doing it

That's not Ramadans, Islam or fastings fault.

It's just daft twats.

I've been doing the 5:2 and go much longer without food, never had any problems. But that's because I know what I'm doing and will bob out if its over tough.

I've fasted as a Christian too at Easter and again, never had any problems.

Millions of people over the world fast with no problems.

GoshAnneGorilla · 05/08/2013 23:18

Sadly there appears to be quite a few people with broken google, I will reiterate that those who are pregnant, mensruating, unwell or travelling are exempted from fasting.

If your employee cannot fast due to ill health, then she shouldn't fast. Alternatively, if she wishes to fast but is finding her work schedule difficult, then she should take annual leave.

She is probably naive as to how much hatred and disdain people feel towards Muslims, I'm not, so I never give anyone any reason to claim that my religious practice is negatively affecting my work.

Fellatio - the way some Muslims treat Ramadan is very much against the religious ideal, but then you could say the same about Christmas, yet people don'tseem to claim that's nonsense.

RegainingUnconsciousness · 05/08/2013 23:19

You know what. I'm going to go out on a limb here, because this is MN:

Young woman, off sick, fainting.

Without the religious context, I'd bet £1 she's newly pregnant. Maybe she doesn't know it yet, and that's why she's struggling this time.

Just a lighthearted theory! Grin

fuzzywuzzy · 05/08/2013 23:19

Countries where the sun doesn't rise or set should take fasting and prayer times in accordance to the nearest county to them geographically that does have sunrise & sunset. If the country has a shariah council they might take the decision to follow Makkah but that's not the first point of reference for them.

We in the UK do have a clear sunrise and sunset so we go by that.

colditz · 05/08/2013 23:19

Ok, currently in Mecca, sunrise is roughly 6 am and sunset roughly 7 pm. This is clearly the intended fasting period for Ramadan. It's also very very different to the uk hours, which are over two hours longer, and are causing physical illnesses in individuals too silly to admit they are ill. Maybe if everyone stuck to Mecca hours, people wouldn't be fainting and coming down with cystitis?

Original poster
Wuldric · 05/08/2013 23:19

This is what I am hoping for next year colditz but I suspect the family may not wish to observe those sort of hours.

I do agree actually that workplaces instead of having set bank holidays on particular days (Christmas day etc) should have 8 religious days a year and then people can take such days off that are necessary in their religions.

OP posts:
EmbroideredCloths · 05/08/2013 23:19

This kind of thread I find wearying. Why does it need to be justified to you? Who set you up to stand in judgement?

But out of courtesy, for those who are genuinely interested and not just seeking to beat the anti-religious stick. . .

The starting point is that it is an observance of your faith and for that you need to believe in God. Many many Muslims don't see it as merely an obligation but also an honour, a time for cleansing and reflection, to actively strive to be the best you can.
I love Ramadhan, I always have, I loved it when I was a child and the days were short and cold, and even now when the days are longer and warmer. To outside eyes it may be hard to understand, but I do this willingly and joyfully because it pleases a God that I believe in and because it benefits me. And I am not alone in my sentiments.

You don't have to understand that, you don't have to agree with it. But kindly respect my right to do it.

FreudiansSlipper · 05/08/2013 23:20

well i guess they would follow the mecca timetable

why such stupid questions Hmm

sallysparrow157 · 05/08/2013 23:21

A friend of mine is a reasonably devout Muslim. He is also a surgeon. He finds it very difficult to eat sufficiently when he has to wake up in the early hours to do so, so on the days he is operating he does not fast. When he is off work he fasts and when he is in on an office day he fasts as long as it is not severely affecting his concentration, if so he will drink water and eat if he really needs to to be able to do his job.

colditz · 05/08/2013 23:21

But eh food preparation is taking so long, I think she's not sleeping enough if she's breakfasting at three then having dinner at nine. You can pull this off for a few days but on no water, little sleep and not enough food, problems are goingto occur.

Original poster
Wuldric · 05/08/2013 23:21

Regaining - do not say that. Really do not say that. She comes from a very religious background. It would simply be the end of her life to be pregnant and not married (she is not married). She has a marriage arranged for her next year.

OP posts:
NoComet · 05/08/2013 23:22

If this woman was not doing her job properly due to some faddy fasting diet (without a eating disorder), her collegues and HR would not be impressed, why is religion any different.

If we want a massive blow out at Christmas we take holiday, so should she.

EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 05/08/2013 23:23

Colditz
Fasting does not cause cystitis or fainting. If someone has cystitis then they should not fast. Likewise if they faint. Fasting, in a healthy adult, is perfectly safe. Anyway, subtracting a couple of hours of fasting on each end won't make any difference. The point of ramadan is fasting during daylight, not fasting during where daylight is in a country thousands of miles away.

StayAwayFromTheEdge · 05/08/2013 23:24

Fuzzy - this in not just one patient I am talking about. We do our best, have extra training, but they want to fast and do fast. Like TheRealFelatio said it is like a badge of honour. They then makes others feel guilty and it is getting worse each year.

FreudiansSlipper · 05/08/2013 23:24

millions and millions of muslims are managing to fast and get on with life and work. ok some richer muslims it may be one long holiday, business may slow down but life, work and business still goes on

but as the op knows one women who for whatever reason is unwell during ramadan it is ridiculous

Original poster
Wuldric · 05/08/2013 23:24

You can believe in anything you want to believe EmbroideredCloths and I'll defend your right to do so. It's just I have caught my junior fainting three times now, at work, It is making her ill. How can any religion insist that you do not drink between 3am and 10pm when it is 30 degrees out there? It is harming her.

OP posts:
RegainingUnconsciousness · 05/08/2013 23:25

Lets hope she's just being too tough on herself then.

And let's not get into the issues surrounding children and relationships outside of religious wedlock, and arranged marriages, and "Honour", and all the other oppression that is allowed under the guise of "Religion" and/or "Culture".

I was only being lighthearted. Babies are exciting!

colditz · 05/08/2013 23:25

I absolutely respect someone's physical autonomy. But the OP is dealing with an employment problem.

If this young woman wasn't Muslim, and merely eating disordered, would the OP still be getting the advice to respect her rights and stop being bigoted? Because this isn't a religion problem, really, it's a staff behavior problem, in that the staff member is engaging in behavior that she KNOWS is making her ill, and leading to sick days, and yet hasn't booked annual leave or modified her behavior.

EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 05/08/2013 23:26

Sallysparrow that is exactly how it should be. XH has taken 4 days off this ramadan when he has had a very long day work and it has been particularly hot. He will make it up later in the year. He would rather be out earning even if he can't fast than be fasting on the sofa at home and he doesn't believe that is the wrong choice, though some Muslims may disagree.

fuzzywuzzy · 05/08/2013 23:27

We don't follow Makkah we follow the times of our country because we live here.

Makkah is a holy city for Muslims its the direction for our prayer. We don't base our waking hours on the hours of Makkah.

Salmotrutta · 05/08/2013 23:27

Ehric - even up here in Scotland we barely get dark in June.

So for you to say that sunset is no later than 9.15 even in summer is utter rubbish.

It's about 11.00 or so in midsummer (later in Orkney or Shetland) and sunrise is about 3.30 up here.

If people want to fast then fine but I can't help thinking its unwise not to even drink water.