This Ramadan fasting ...[title edited by MNHQ]

[Wuldric]

I have a talented and lovely junior who happens to be Muslim. In the last month she has recorded 6 days off sick, and left work early on three additional occasions as she has fainted.

I don't have any personal bias against any form of religion. Well that's not actually true. Being an atheist, I am biased against all forms of religion, But I am balanced against all of them equally IYSWIM. Lest you all accuse me of xenophobia or something, I am not white and was not born in the UK. I am just impatient with this.

She has no weight to spare to start with. She cannot eat until after dusk. Dusk is pretty late in the UK in summertime. So in the evening she eats at 10. She is supposed to eat before dawn rises although my suspicion is that she is skipping this meal, because in her home it takes place at 3am. She is not allowed so much as a drink of water in between times. The offices are airconditioned, but her home and her journey to work are not.

This fasting tomfoolery is making my lovely junior ill. She looks like a famine victim - her face is just gaunt. It is not good for her. AIBU to think this is all nonsense?

Very telling that in times gone by, an OP like this on MN would have been shot down before even getting to Page 2.

FWIW when I was breastfeeding I was giving a leniency to drink. I just drank water (although could have drunk apple juice / milk) and I was totally fine - so I think unless you are underweight to start with I think its the lack of fluids and not the lack of food thats the problem.

I am sure Muslims are exempted from fasting while bf so I think your religion sounds harsher tbh

Well, it seems to have become a 'lets-think-of-the-one-failing-example-in-my-back-yard' type of thread. My cleaner has fasted this year (kept most of them) and her productivity has certainly not been affected in any way. I could say the same for DS' teacher, the lady serving at the checkout at the supermarket, I could go on... you would not know unless you asked them.

I bet if you replaced the word Muslim with Scientologist all the posts telling you that YABU would suddenly become YANBU.

As an Atheist I never understand why some religions seem to be beyond reproach, whereas others are fair game. Religion is a matter of belief, anyone can choose to believe anything they like but they are not forced to do anything such as fasting, they choose to do so as part of a belief system and they shouldn't be treated specially because they choose to do so (that goes for any religion or belief system that imposes rules based on make believe on their followers). I also don't think others should be forced to respect or accommodate the beliefs of others, especially when it is detrimental to the business/life of non-believers who often have to pick up the slack for those that are taking time off.

As for the thread title, unless you are an EDL halfwit hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet (which you may well be, how would we know) then HOW DARE YOU.

Snuffleton, atheism is your religion, it is not a neutral position from which to cast aspersions - would it be fair to throw stones, rotten cabbages at you because you do not believe in God? Theistic people might object to their children inheriting values which are very much in line with the do-what-thou-wilt philosophy which you advocate.

Eid Mubarak to all Muslims on the thread (when it comes).

I think the OP s in a difficult position, because she feels it would be potentially discriminatory on religious grounds to bring up her colleague's underperformance during Ramadan. I think the weather and the timings of this year's Ramadan have made it difficult all round for fasters, but I agree with those who say that, with care, it is perfectly possible to remain compos mentis throughout. My Muslim friends have tended to claim that they don't lose weight over Ramadan because of eating big family Iftars at night. One friend says he usually puts on weight. Ths colleague is clearly being over-conscientious and shouldn't be fasting, as almost any imam would tell her.

As another poster said, in predominantly Muslim countries, the working day is cut significantly, and the hours of daylight are significantly shorter anyway. That brings its own problems. Anyone who has ever had to drive the Abu Dhabi to Dubai road when everyone else is rushing to mosque and home for Iftar, dehydrated and hungry and with their patience, blood sugar and concentration low, will know what I mean. Road traffic accidents go way up every year.

niminy the fasting you do for a diet is entirely different and you still do drink water and eat (in some instances) small amounts of certain foods. It's not the same at all and unless you are doing the 5:2 diet it's usually in very short bursts, not prolonged over a month.

Anyway, as I said upthread, they do not fast in the true sense of not eating anything for 24 hours, they merely move their meal times to hours of darkness. Not quite the same thing. Although I find the denying themselves water rather silly and ill-advised even for a healthy person.

I am not against it - I don't care what people want to do so long as it doesn't impact negatively on others around them.

Morning everyone,

Thank you to everyone who brought this thread to our attention. We've now edited the title of this thread to reflect that the OP is asking about the fasting element of Ramadan.

About a month ago during the really hot spell there were five girls age 11/12 that collapsed during a PE lesson at my daughters school during Ramadan.

Thanks Kate Mumsnet, much better

Although most Muslims know that they are allowed to stop fasting if they are feeling ill or faint, for many there would be a loss of face and a sense of failure. They will be inclined to keep going even when all the signs are saying they should not. The people who manage the whole month without a hitch are probably those who can afford to completely rearrange their schedule to fit around it, which is unrealistic for most, or unfair on their colleagues/teachers/customers etc. But pretty soon I imagine it will be illegal to discipline employees for poor performance/attendance during Ramadan.

These 11-12 year old girls are exempt from fasting. Please read the thread people! If these kids are still fasting despite not being eligible to do so then the blame lies with their parents. Not Islam.

Same goes for the junior who fainted. I'm curious about where these fainting, grumpy, dehydrated Muslims are??! I live amongst and work with many and every single one is relishing this month, eating well, laughing, joking, looking forward to eid. There are billions and billions of Muslims fasting worldwide, the majority in hot countries. If Ramadan was dangerous it would not be so widely observed by so many.

Now you know that over-zealous fasting has nothing to do with what is required in Islam, perhaps you would care to modify your prized belief system and in future, refrain from tarring millions of people with the same brush?

I'm an atheist too, but I have a bit more sympathy than you.

I had a student feeling very unwell, it was one of the hottest days of the year, no air con and in a room with PCs pushing out heat.

I spoke to her, outside the classroom, and asked her if she thought Allah would want her to be ill? I also asked if she could make up the missed days another time, the course was 3 weeks full time for people who are long term unemployed so a shock to a lot of people's systems.

But I left the decision to her.

I would do the same with a Christian fasting, a Jew fasting (that can be 25 hours OP) a Hindu etc etc.

If someone is struggling with work/study then surely it is your duty to find out why and to accommodate differences if you can.

"FWIW when I was breastfeeding I was giving a leniency to drink. I just drank water (although could have drunk apple juice / milk) and I was totally fine - so I think unless you are underweight to start with I think its the lack of fluids and not the lack of food thats the problem."

I am sure Muslims are exempted from fasting while bf so I think your religion sounds harsher tbh

Maybe - but there are only 2 major fast a year several months apart, all new mothers (bf or not) totally exempt from minor fasts for 2 years (as that was assumed to be duration of bf-ing). Totally different fasting one day to going a whole month!

Plus was told to eat if I needed to. I just drunk water and I was fine - think could last much longer if it was a smoothie or juice being ingested! Was making the point that its drinking that impacts performance not eating.

Yanbu God does not want people to make themselves ill.

redandblacks - I wonder if I would get as much sympathy if I told my boss I couldn't work on a specific day because it goes against my belief as a Jedi? I think my boss would laugh in my face.

All religions are made up beliefs. Nobody has to stay a Christian/Jew/Muslim/Jedi, they choose to believe in those things. As I said, I think certain religions get far more leeway to make excuses as to why they can't work on a specific day etc and it is not fair on others who have to take up the slack because they do not share the same beliefs.

This is a secular country, where religion should have little place, especially in the workplace and I feel a lot of sympathy for the OP because her work is being made more difficult because of the choices this lady is making.

Also see here: link

"Although pregnant women may request an exemption from fasting, they are expected to "make up" the fasting days missed during pregnancy after their baby is born. Previous research has suggested that this requirement may discourage pregnant women from seeking the exemption, since they do not want to be the only member of their household fasting. Some Muslims also interpret Islamic law as requiring pregnant women in good health to fast."

So glad the title has been changed. I'm an atheist but the special kind of ridiculing, belittling atheism that is fashionable today makes me ashamed. It is bad enough when it is directed at Christianity, but when it is directed at Muslims it has the additional nastiness of targeting ethnic minorities that have faced awful abuse in recent years.

poor girl. Shes obviously not old or healthy enough to do it and should be excused.
YANBU

redandblacks atheism isn't a religion or even a belief system. It's a lack of belief in gods.

I would say that it is a religious choice actually and covers many sub-religions and beliefs which overlap in complicated ways - they might present themselves as anti-religions but as far as I am concerned, they are religions.

One of the big misconceptions we have been sold in the last century is that atheism is non-religion and not a faith and is a way of opting out of the whole, stupid, dogmatic mess etc. and making a smart choice. Of course it is a faith choice and many people come together making similar choices, so not dissimilar to the mainstream faiths in that respect.

Some Muslims also interpret Islamic law as requiring pregnant women in good health to fast."

Umm, well we are coming back to the point of misinterpretation again and the ill-informed things people do in the name of religion which are actually nothing to do with what has clearly been prescribed by the religion

and sometimes, a biased media which reports things from unconfirmed and sometimes fabricated sources for the purpose of maintaining readership and popularity.