Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To have argued with a beggar (animal abuse content)

186 replies

MinnieMoose · 05/08/2013 09:07

Was I being unreasonable to have an argument with a street beggar?

We were on holiday to Rhodes and visited Rhodes old town one evening with the children.

I had read a campaign in our hotel lobby from a local animal welfare charity, that was informing tourists not to give money to beggars with puppies. As they are taken from their mothers too early and are drugged to keep them quiet, all to gain sympathy for money.

They work as gangs and once the puppies have served their purpose they are killed, they are given no water and left with the beggar in the heat for long periods of time - not to mention the drugs they are given to keep them sleepy.

I was distressed to read this and we encountered a street beggar almost immediately on our evening out.

She was only a young girl (13 at a guess) and had a tiny black pup, asleep next to her.

I couldn't help but feel outraged, should I have turned my head and walked on?

I asked her where the pup's mother was, where was it's water/milk/food? How come the pup was fast asleep and couldn't be roused?

She looked at me blankly, so I informed the tourists around us not to give her any money and suddenly she understands english and begins swearing at me and giving me hand gestures of the "fuck off" variety.

Well then I saw red and an argument followed with lots of swearing and shouting, I am ashamed of myself but as an animal lover I couldn't contain myself.

We informed a policeman and she ran with the poor puppy under her arm.

My husband had taken the children away from the situation before it became heated, but was annoyed with me for causing a scene.

So was I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
FreudiansSlipper · 05/08/2013 11:35

what a fucked up attitude you have towards children unlucky

theodorakisses · 05/08/2013 11:36

I have a colleague who was bitten by a chimp he paid to pose with, it had a chain round it's neck and was wearing a Santa onside. He spent the rest of his holiday in hospital and is now on unpaid leave at the tropical medicine hospital being assessed for fitness to work. Apart from being very sorry that the chimp was put down and presumably they will poach another, now I know he is ok I can't help feeling there was a tiny justice to it.

MrsDeVere · 05/08/2013 11:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FrigginRexManningDay · 05/08/2013 11:39

A 13 year old who has been exploited cannot rationalise and use her voice. She will have been conditioned to not trust anyone outside of those who control her.

Elsiequadrille · 05/08/2013 11:42

Wow, am in full agreement with LEM.

You saw a 13 year old beggar and you were more worried about the puppy!

MrsDeVere · 05/08/2013 11:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

whois · 05/08/2013 11:46

OP you're a right piece of work.

Using animals for beggin IS shit and giving money does encourage it. So just don't give any money!

Giving a load of verbal abuse to what is quite likely a trafficked and abided child is an awful way to deal with the situation.

But your own precious little poppets had been moved on by your DH so they didn't have to see the nasty dirty child being shouted at by you?

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved · 05/08/2013 11:47

Glad you have realised why you were in the wrong, as your knee jerk reaction to blame and scream at a vulnerable abused child is horrific.

We have a strange attitude towards children, the little cute ones we see as helpless babes we should fight to the death for... But as soon as their bodies grow, even just in 12 months or so, they aren't helpless babes anymore and we judge them as adults and as fully formed humans... Anyone see the awfulness of that?

She doesn't have a 'voice', it's a bit like saying those poor girls being abused and raped in rochdale etc were fine cos they made their own choice, they decided to be prostitutes, or take drugs, or go off with these men.

Abused children do not have a voice, they don't have choices, and they are not adults. I hate this attitude and anyone should know better. (especially someone with children and posting on a patenting forum!)

Spottypurse · 05/08/2013 11:48

Unlicky83 have you ever worked with or known any abused children, either here or in any other countries ?

woozlebear · 05/08/2013 11:50

Compared to a human animal life is expendable?

Totally meaningless statement based entirely on your subjective opinion. Just because that opinion may be shared by the majority of people, it doesn't make an objective truth. YOU think animal life is expendable. Fine. But to hammer on insisting it's somehow a fact is just absurd. There's plenty of vegans that would disgaree with that. And what have war zones got to do with the price of milk?

What's the POINT of such statements, either? Why not just say that the girl was just as much a victim as they dog, and that shouting wasn't going to help any of the issues in the situation? Why is it an either /or anyway?

MildDrPepperAddiction · 05/08/2013 11:53

YWVVVVU

What about the girl's welfare also? She is probably just as exploited as the puppy.
I hope you feel ashamed of yourself.

LazyMonkeyButler · 05/08/2013 12:00

I am very glad you have realised how appalling your actions were. I just hope that the young girl wasn't punished for YOUR actions. I'm not at all surprised your husband was annoyed - I'd have been ashamed of you, not annoyed.

Flobbadobs · 05/08/2013 12:01

MrsDV you had someone being racist about your dog??
unlucky am speechless... Actually no I'm not. I can only hope you're playing Devils Advocate and are trying to get us to see every point of view. It's the only way I can rationalise the fact that you appear to think that suicide is a viable option for a child potentially being forced to beg. Yes, she can think for herself. Do you honestly believe that she was sat there thinking how fabulous her life was and how much she was enjoying her evening?
It's quite possible that she was beaten, sexually abused, forced to take drugs. We have compassion for children in this country who are put through this, look at the outcry over cases made public. So why not the same compassion for children in other countries?
And yes, if she had been forced to torture the animal I could still have compassion for her. Because I am capable of feeling it for more than one species at a time.

theodorakisses · 05/08/2013 12:02

Onesie

Wasapea · 05/08/2013 12:02

Totally agree with you, woozlebear. Not sure why so many people have the view that we get to decide which lives matter and which don't.

Eilidhbelle · 05/08/2013 12:04

unlucky83 I don't think you realise how gut-wrenchingly stupid your rational is, otherwise I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have posted it. What were you up to at 13? Deciding whether or not to survive, and the lengths you would go to to do that?

mrsjay · 05/08/2013 12:06

This 'child' is 13 and not 3 - she can rationalise - she knows what is happening ... she has weighed up her options for survival and decided in the circumstances this is the best way for her - I know terrible options/alternatives but she does have a choice...not much of one but a choice..(she could run away/refuse/kill herself - or starve/be beaten/etc etc)...

she is fucking 13 yr old she has no voice none she cant stand up forherself she is as tortured as much as a 3 year old

mrsjay · 05/08/2013 12:07

sorry for swearing Blush

FreudiansSlipper · 05/08/2013 12:08

because most of us when we are in a desperate situation would put the life of humans above animals

we do not even have to think about it in this country but in many they do for most of the population and animals are to be used (along with other humans) to get by

woozlebear · 05/08/2013 12:16

YY toflobba and feeling compassion for more than one species at a time. That's the key to this, really, isn't it? Seeing a situation that, sadly, is awful for all involved, not a picture-book parable of goody vs baddy or important vs inconsequential.

Spottypurse · 05/08/2013 12:16

Unlucky, I'm open mouthed at the notion that it's a legitimate option that a child should have considered to commit suicide. Are you serious?

TheFallenNinja · 05/08/2013 12:19

There seems to be an error in the thread title. It should read "child abuse" by you.

LessMissAbs · 05/08/2013 12:23

Unfortunately in Greece, the begging "business" works on the basis that gullible foreign tourists will feel sorry for children with dogs or puppies, and not challenge them in the way they would adults.

PlatinumStart · 05/08/2013 12:35

I didn't think anyone could beat the OP for stupidity but jeez unlucky you cannot possibly believe a child is in a better position because she can choose to kill herself- I'm so appalled that someone could contemplate this as the truth...

Apologies for going off thread but woozlebear and wasapea do you have DC? Do you struggle to put them ahead of animals? Eg. If my DC were all drowning obviously it'd be impossible to decide who to save. If you were in that position but with animals thrown in would you save animals first? I'm genuinely interested as its a view so far removed from my own.

mignonette · 05/08/2013 12:44

Minnie - you have displayed a grace under pressure that many others here could learn from. Especially those who clearly have nothing to learn...