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AIBU?

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Original poster

To have argued with a beggar (animal abuse content)

186 replies

MinnieMoose · 05/08/2013 09:07

Was I being unreasonable to have an argument with a street beggar?

We were on holiday to Rhodes and visited Rhodes old town one evening with the children.

I had read a campaign in our hotel lobby from a local animal welfare charity, that was informing tourists not to give money to beggars with puppies. As they are taken from their mothers too early and are drugged to keep them quiet, all to gain sympathy for money.

They work as gangs and once the puppies have served their purpose they are killed, they are given no water and left with the beggar in the heat for long periods of time - not to mention the drugs they are given to keep them sleepy.

I was distressed to read this and we encountered a street beggar almost immediately on our evening out.

She was only a young girl (13 at a guess) and had a tiny black pup, asleep next to her.

I couldn't help but feel outraged, should I have turned my head and walked on?

I asked her where the pup's mother was, where was it's water/milk/food? How come the pup was fast asleep and couldn't be roused?

She looked at me blankly, so I informed the tourists around us not to give her any money and suddenly she understands english and begins swearing at me and giving me hand gestures of the "fuck off" variety.

Well then I saw red and an argument followed with lots of swearing and shouting, I am ashamed of myself but as an animal lover I couldn't contain myself.

We informed a policeman and she ran with the poor puppy under her arm.

My husband had taken the children away from the situation before it became heated, but was annoyed with me for causing a scene.

So was I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
maja00 · 05/08/2013 10:20

You're an animal lover but you don't give a fuck about a little girl?

Are you a mother OP? I hope you genuinely are ashamed of yourself and will think twice about verbally abusing vulnerable children in public in the future.

lovecupboards · 05/08/2013 10:28

Maja to be fair the OP has said she is ashamed of herself, the damage is already done but at least OP is 'rehabilitated', if you like. I don't think gratuitous abuse from this point on is going to be constructive.

theodorakisses · 05/08/2013 10:32

And fair play to her for coming back. Most people would have fled and name changed.

Flobbadobs · 05/08/2013 10:37

It takes guts to take it on the chin on AIBU and admit you're wrong, glad that you did.
You have inadvertently raised good points about both animal and child abuse though.

Wasapea · 05/08/2013 10:37

A terrible situation for both the girl and the poor puppy. But HollyBerryBush - to call the life of an animal 'expendable' is also really bloody horrible.

I can't abide people who assume animals are there for humans to do as they please with because we're more important. It's just arrogant. You don't have to choose between feeling sorry for children who are abused and animals who are abused. Both are equally abhorrent.

Wasapea · 05/08/2013 10:38

Both types of abuse, I mean, obviously.

FreudiansSlipper · 05/08/2013 10:54

it is all very well for us to troop around the world and be shocked at the treatment of animals

life is very very difficult in many countries and greece as you will know is having a hard time. animal welfare is not a high priority it can not afford to be where it can here i suggest either you accept that or only travel to countries that have similar standards of living to here and where they can afford to worry about the plight of stray dogs

can also give to charity of course

Original poster
MinnieMoose · 05/08/2013 10:57

I can't blame ignorance for my behaviour.

I read the poster from the animal charity and it painted a picture of the beggars as an organised gang, where they are not homeless beggars as such. But I never thought who are they working for then. Of course the girl shouldn't be begging on the street either for her own survival or to line some criminals pocket, but my heart went out to the animal.

The girl was well dressed and had a bottle of water by her side. She got extremely aggressive and I shouted back to her that what she was doing was cruel. I didn't swear back at her but I admit I was shouting.

I was wrong and I am ashamed of myself. So I thank you all for opening my eyes.

I do feel shocked that children are used to gain money who are in turn using animals to gain a greater amount.

I'd like to know how these gangs function and who is behind the exploitation.

My apologies for causing any upset.

OP posts:
cornypepper · 05/08/2013 11:00

Well you know Minnie most people (including me) would probably walk past the child and puppy and do nothing and just enjoy their holiday without giving them much thought.....you tried to make a stand which is more than many people would do.

You've raised the issue now for lots of people to consider.

HollyBerryBush · 05/08/2013 11:00

But HollyBerryBush - to call the life of an animal 'expendable' is also really bloody horrible.

Compared to a human it is. But I doubt you've ever been in a war zone, you'll just have sanitised images beamed to you on your sofa. Different experiences make for different perspectives.

FreudiansSlipper · 05/08/2013 11:02

i was told in Vietnam not to give money to children begging on the street, i gave them food and to see a child who is starving and children fight over food is the most distressing thing i have ever seen

i do not care about organised gangs drugging dogs tbh when there are children suffering these children will probably get a beating on top of the humiliation of begging if they do not bring money back when people are desperat

FreudiansSlipper · 05/08/2013 11:03

when people are desperate they do desperate things and life can become cruel for all involved plus there are others willing to exploit their suffering

DanceParty · 05/08/2013 11:06

If the 'minders' were watching then the OP was in the right to say something to the child (and, believe me, those minders would be watching carefully!). The more people that said something the less inclined they would be to use that particular method of begging, surely all of you who are having a go can see that?

Or are you sooooo blind to having a go at the OP that you can't?

I, too, would have 'had a go' and loudly and I probably would have picked the puppy up and left with it.

And ^^ cornypepper is right.

No way would I be apologising for 'being wrong' OP !!!

FreudiansSlipper · 05/08/2013 11:12

what humiliate a child that is begging even more

do you think her minders care about drugging dogs and that some tourist shouting a little is going to make them see the light

maybe you could also buy the girl some food after making sure the puppy is ok first of course Hmm

Wasapea · 05/08/2013 11:13

Different experiences make for different perspectives.

Yes they do. I'll not get in to an 'actually I have' situation, but can confirm I have left my sofa before and still don't think the life of anything is expendable or worth less than something else just because we decide it is.

Anyway, good for you OP for bringing this to the attention of others. Might inspire more people to do something to help.

FrigginRexManningDay · 05/08/2013 11:17

That child probably got a beating for 'drawing attention' to herself.
Child exploitation is cruel and barbaric,children are plentiful and of little value. Shouting at her would not bring any good for her or others like her.
Instead find out the charities involved in rescuing children from child exploitation and donate to them.

mrsjay · 05/08/2013 11:18

she was a child do you not think she was being exploited too poor kid being shouted at Id have been really concerned for both human and animal , but mainly a 13 yr old girl being forced to beg did that not alarm you at all,

DanceParty · 05/08/2013 11:19

FreudianSlipper said: maybe you could also buy the girl some food

She would NOT be allowed to accept it. Don't you know anything about organised begging?

FreudiansSlipper · 05/08/2013 11:21

yes i do

do you? i know many children are hungry she may not have accepted it but you are doing something to help her but for many the puppy being drugged is more important

DanceParty · 05/08/2013 11:24

So me offering food to a hungry child, who is not allowed to accept it, is deemed 'helping'? More like rubbing it in, I would say.

FrigginRexManningDay · 05/08/2013 11:28

Don't you Dance? Saying you would've had a go will do nothing but bring more misery to this girls already miserable life. The same with giving food.
Yes our instinct is to feed and protect this poor little girl and children like her but by doing that,however well intentioned,will alert the minders and could have grave consequences.

unlucky83 · 05/08/2013 11:28

YWBU -
but I do understand the point about she has a voice

...the kind of cruelty/physical abuse I find the most sickening is that which involves a creature which is completely helpless/dependent - small children and captive animals - they have absolutely no choice and can't understand what is happening - just pain, suffering ...even worse if they have known a comfortable happy life before ...especially if subjected to long term sustained cruelty and abuse...

This 'child' is 13 and not 3 - she can rationalise - she knows what is happening ... she has weighed up her options for survival and decided in the circumstances this is the best way for her - I know terrible options/alternatives but she does have a choice...not much of one but a choice..(she could run away/refuse/kill herself - or starve/be beaten/etc etc)...

The puppies are helpless... it is a far from ideal life and the practice shouldn't be encouraged - but they are not actually being tortured ...they don't know any different and they are drugged so most of their short lives will be a blurr...

I think if the profile is raised and people don't give to beggars with puppies the presence of a puppy actually reduces the takings they will stop using them ...and that is better than shouting in the street...

Out of interest - what if (and for our western sensibilities this wouldn't happen - it wouldn't increase takings)...the child beggar was being made to torture an animal as 'an entertainment' to make more money - making it jump around on hot coals or something ...

What would you do? And would you still feel understanding for the child?

maja00 · 05/08/2013 11:32

She has a voice because she could always choose to kill herself? That's one of the most fucked up things I've ever read on here.

FreudiansSlipper · 05/08/2013 11:32

how do you know they will not accept it if they are that hungry they will and many will be

rubbing it in, nothing can be much more degrading than begging on the street i doubt offering a little food or drink would humiliate them more

of course tourist resorts encourage you to ignore them hoping they will move on and they probably will but it will not stop the exploitation of children in poor countries. rich tourists are a source of income for them, we are happy to spend hundreds or even thousands going to these countries how can we expect people who are living there who live hand to mouth not want to exploit us in some way, and sadly children are used. this will only changed when wealth is shared out more and we are a long way off from that

FrigginRexManningDay · 05/08/2013 11:34

The authorities have little control over organised begging gangs,they move illegally with false identities. They have strong links to crime,prostituition, human trafficking and identity theft. You don't need to alert the authorities,they already know.