To think in the real world it's become openly acceptable to vilify and abuse benefit claimants?

[Pantone363]

Years ago people might of gossiped about people on benefits, or moaned to their partners etc. but there wasn't this acceptable open hostility towards them.

In the space of a week I've heard people openly call them "breeders" (ie single mothers), it seems ok to expect any benefit claimant to explain themselves to anyone who feels they are funding their lifestyle (taxpayers).

It really seems the tide is turning towards an open contempt for anyone claiming benefits whilst not working.

I can't think of any other group of people it's ok to shame and gossip about in public!

So AIBU?

The tax credit system is so complicated to deal with that I think it's understandable when people turn down temporary extra hours at work out of worry that they will mess up their claim.

If extra hours are being offered permanently though, then people should be obliged to take them rather then claiming benefit.

Again, it comes down to rules that the benefit system puts in place.

If the government are going to make it easy for people to bring in the same amount of money for doing nothing or working less hours than they could be, then people are going to take advantage of that.

If the system were changed enough so that only people who genuinely needed money were given it, then there would be nothing for people to get resentful about and claimants wouldn't need to feel stigmatised. The vast majority of us support the welfare state being available to those that have a genuine need.

Not wanting to work because you have a three year old, or because you end up with the same income whether you work 16 hours or 30 is not a genuine need.

Yes, it has become acceptable. I blame the press and the government for this. This country is becoming very evil.

I live in a very small town and have been struggling to find work and suitable childcare for my child (6) who has special needs. There are no jobs in this area and I do not want to move my kid to another school because of his special needs. He has been accepted by his classmates and would really struggle to make new friends due to his disability. I have other good reasons for not wanting to move at the moment.

I have arranged a work placement on my own and the job centre is very happy with my attempts to find work. They admit there are very few jobs here due to the recession. They have advised me that accepting a job contracted for less than 16 hours a week may leave me in dire straits.

I have lived in this town most of my life and some people have started to put statements on facebook demanding that benefit claimants be driven out of town because we are spoiling the area. I have had most of my (ex) friends give me abuse because i do not have a job. I always worked, from age 14, before I had my child and my marriage broke up.

I was previously a normal and happy person, very sociable with lots of friends etc. For the past year I hardly leave the house because i know everyone hates me and resents me here. I can honestly say this is the lowest point of my life. Even people working in the shops make cutting remarks. They might ask me what I'm doing and then reply that they can't do that because they have to work. Others are nice to my face, but i have seen the things they write on FB so I know that they are only pretending to like me.

It is absolutely horrible and my son gets upset seeing me crying all the time. I am very grateful to all the people on here who understand and sympathise with people im my situation.

I think we see these 'scroungers' in the paper and on tv all the time supposingly moaning about how they cant afford iphone 5s and room for a pony.
As another MNetter wrote they are the new easy target.
My DH is one of six children and he is the only one who works. The other 5 are happy to live off benefits and they live well (not saying all benefit claiments can manage Im purely going on how I see my BILs and SILs living)
My niece is a teenage single mother who has a lovely flat and has said to me herself she has no intention of working.
I know everyones circumstances are different but Ive only ever seen DH family members on benefits living the life of Riley...days out, partying etc. Something myself and my family cannot afford to do.

PS Im not benefit bashing..just my humble opinion

trampled

OMG, this is terrible. at being run out of town.
I know its easier said than done but just remember that those doing this are evil and they themselves are only redundancy away from being in the same position.
You have no need to feel so bad, but they do. You are clearly doing the best for your child and should be able to hold your head up high and be proud.
I really can't believe your town is so bad, it has me.

trampled sounds horrible. It is exactly this sort of reason I don't even tell people that I claim benefits. I live in a busy city so people don't tend to know your business, and I have lots of acquaintances rather than close friends who know everything about me.

I hope your work placement goes well. It's hard to work with a disabled child, I rely on my Carer's Allowance as childcare isn't really an option for DS.

What I don't understand about benefit bashing is if the government stopped benefits tomorrow it would not increase the standard of non claimants lives. Taxes wouldn't go down, the nhs wouldn't be suddenly improved we would just end up with a lot more crime.

I think one of the main problems is our society is no longer socially mobile. I have managed workfare 18-25 year olds in retail and their lack of aspiration was upsetting they didn't see themselves being able to get a job where they could work their way up and provide themselves with a better life then they are accustomed to. I really think more needs to be done to give young people a better education and aspirations. Apprentiships would be far more useful then 50% of people going to uni.

My neighbours don't even know I am now a benefit claimant. They see me going off twice a week in a car and think its for work, it isn't I am a volunteer for an education charity which supports families. Before any of the HappyMummy types get their undies all bunched up....the car cost me £250 on eBay and a friend who is a mechanic (thank God for mechanic friends) maintains it for me.

Work may come from my volunteer work eventually but at this present time my DS needs me around. He goes into Y6 in September and then into senior school, he struggles massively with change (I understand you perfectly trampled) and I know he is going to need me around. Once all is settled I will be in a better position to work again.

In the meantime I claim Carers Allowance and DS gets DLA. Even with all the other benefits though I was STILL better off financially in work and suspect many people would be the same.

What people have to remember is that these chancers they see are just the ones who are most visible. They boast about not working and how well they're doing. They are highlighted by the press and Government to promote their own agenda.

Sometimes this boasting isn't about doing really well or about being proud that they don't work. It's bravado they are trying to convince themselves more than anyone else that life isn't shit. They feel trapped by the system and the difficulty of finding them a job has left them devoid of hope so despite their best effort they have lost confidence in finding work so they resort to this bravado as a last ditch attempt to get some feel good factor into their lives.

The other benefit claimants you don't notice so much. They are working their arses off in low paid jobs, they're scrambling about trying to find better jobs or any job at all, they're dealing with chronic pain and illness, their awake all hours of the day and night looking after the sick, elderly or disabled who would otherwise be in care. You don't notice them because they are putting all their energy and money into just surviving, not living but surviving. What's more they desperately want to avoid people finding out they claim benefits because they fear the derision it will bring.

You wouldn't spot them in the street because they funnily enough look like any other human being, they can be well spoken and well educated. You don't notice them because they don't match the stereotype you've been fed by the media.

According to the Reed job website, there have been 9 admin jobs advertised in our area in the past week

..and what sort of idiot employer uses a recruitment consultant in times like this.The way to get a job is write to companies on spec saying what you are looking for.It is true to say that most jobs are never advertised.

"Rules like the one that allows people to not bother looking for work as long as they have a child under five are what creates bad feeling"

People? Or lone parents?

I worked full-time from the time when DD was three months old till two, then again aged three until four. It was hard on her. Everything was down to me. Working, dealing with bills and debts left by XH, phone calls, organising childcare, keeping on top of her clothes as she grew, nursey requests, cleaning, ironing, the shopping, cooking, birthdays, Christmas, repairs, decorating, even the logistics of taking the bins out and either dragging her out and it taking three times as long down four flights of stairs or leaving her in bed and praying.

I had no energy to spare when I was working and we weren't better off financially - and I was on a professional salary! When her health was so bad that I had to stop work, we went to parks, fed the ducks, I could shop around for bargains.

XH was gone and didn't contribute money, time or effort. I don't think it's unreasonable for a child who only has one parent, especially when it is not the remaining parents' decision, to have that parent around during their earliest years.

If anyone harboured bad feeling about me during that time, or resented a child with a life-threatening medical condition having me fully present and energetic during the times she was out of hospital and well enough to enjoy life with the other person in the world who gave a shit about her, well - I wish a whole heap of karma on their arse.

"other" = only

I usually turn up on the benefit bashing threads defending claimants.

However, in this case, I'm not sure I agree with the OP. Thinking back to when I was a child growing up, I remember the stigma attached to being on benefits, living in a council house, or worst-of-all being a single parent, being way worse than it is now.

All that said, I'm sure I remember a report out in 2012 saying that attacks on disabled people had risen since the Coalition came to power and started spouting rhetoric about fraudulent DLA/IB claims.

Corinne - I agree with you totally about lone parents. They are the ones living up to the responsibility of having a child. 60% of them get no financial support from their child's father and of those who use the CSA, half of them get £5 a week or less. Neither is there any onus on a non-resident parent to pay anything towards the cost of childcare, even though they benefit from 'free' childcare in effect. I'll reserve my opprobrium for the parents who walk away rather than those left picking up the pieces.

Thirty years ago there were far fewer single parents.

I do get depressed when I see a single mother berating her ex partner again and again, he doesnt pay anything, he never vists etc. Is our judgement worse now than it was years ago when you make the decision to have a baby with this person? I dont have an answer but suggesting that a lone parent can stay at home at tax payers expense because they are a lone parent I am not sure is the answer.

60% of them get no financial support! Thats a shocking figure. Where have the all gone, are they all not working?? CSA less than £5 a week!! Are the majoirty of men that leave a complete waste of space. Why would someone have a child with someone who doesnt work, claims benefits or disappears off the face of the earth.

handcream I suspect that years ago women who were in abusive, violent relationships were under more pressure to stay 'for the sake of the kis'. Never mind though lets follow like sheep and berate the victim. Can't be blaming the abuser or abandoner can we?

Well yes, it was my choice that XH left my house. He would have been more than happy to carry on doing nothing for DD, poncing from my paid employment, verbally abusing me and acting violently adn putting her at risk. Some choice...

I agree that there has been a shift in attitudes though. I really don't get what has happened to men in that they have no shame about walking away from a wanted child without a backward glance. Perhaps it's because the focus has been on evil single parent mothers for so long

handcream anyone who knows the slightest thing about DV realises that marriage and pregnancy are huge factors in the escalation of it. XH displayed no obvious red flags until I was married and pregnant. That's why people have a child with someone like that - because by the time they are in that situation it is too late and the abuse has started. And it is not the best time, emotionally, to make changes. You are very vulnerable and they prey on that.

I was lucky in that I had a career and a house and could get the fucker out months after having DD. Even then it was very difficult with friends and family saying I couldn't possibly not give the marriage more of a go, unreasonable woman that I was, and what was I doing to provoke him?

The average single parent is divorced and aged in their mid 30s handcream. We're talking mostly about women who mistakenly believed they were in a committed relationship. It is also well-known that abuse often starts in pregnancy or just after birth. 1 in 4 women has been abused and domestic abuse has featured in the lives of single parents much more than it does in society generally.

There were many unhappy, abused women in the past. Bearing in mind that years ago people didn't split up, but now they do and abuse is less acceptable, I'd say that the growth in single parents has something to do with this. I'd hazard a guess that today's abusers are the same ones who were brought up in families where the victim stayed.

As for the appalling 60% statistic, interesting isn't it. And yet the coalition thought it would be a good idea to charge people for using the CSA to try to collect maintenance.

That's me, Dahlen. Over-thirty and professional. I wish I knew what led me to trust XH, I really do.

Maybe it's because I am a fairly good person myself and my own Dad would never have dreamt of doing what XH did. His parents were married and I was told on my wedding day that we had both been "set a good example" but looking back, during the two times I had stayed with the ILs, his Dad was a nasty fucker but his mum had spent a lifetime walking on eggshells so his true colours didn't really show to someone not watching for it...

I am questioning how the majority of women are making choices that ulitmately lead to them being on their own with the man getting off scott free...

I know its not PC to mention it but these figures are shocking. Surely we have to look at what people are choosing to do with their lives and I cannot believe that over 60% of women are leaving abusive partners. Of course some will but what about the rest.

How about questioning a society and system that allows people to procreate with someone and then completely abscond from their responsibilities regarding that child/children.

"Withdraw benefits from feckless absent fathers"

said nobody, ever.

Hear hear expat.

You really don't get it do you handcream? Women don't generally wake up one morning and decide to have a child with someone who will leave them or abuse them. The have a child with a man they think they can trust, with a man who has often treated them like a princess until. Many abusers are masters if manipulation they can hide their abusive tendencies until it's too late. As others have said pregnancy or Childbirth is often the trigger.

Ask yourself how often someone has turned out to be an abusive twat and lots of people say 'but he always seemed so nice'

As to why women don't leave sooner: their abuser destroys their confidence, he convinces them it's their fault, people reinforce this (yes people like you handcream) by making comments supporting the belief that they deserved the abuse because they chose that partner, society tells them they'd be irresponsible if they became single mums.

So they stay until their abuser destroys all of what they once were and she exists until one of them dies, or she stays until her abuser decided to find another woman to destroy in which case it's months if not years before she'll realise she's lucky to escape, or she stays until she's lucky enough to gain strength on her own or lucky enough to meet someone with at least an ounce of compassion and common sense who can help her escape.

The TRUE extent of domestic abuse isn't seen because it's hidden. The abuser doesn't want to be seen for what they are and society teaches the victim that they are they ones who should be ashamed so they keep quiet.

As for men buggering off and hiding or lying about income. Why shouldn't they, they're not going to be caught or punished and any abuse and disapproval will be aimed at the ex win win! Great eh?

Fantastic post ,grumpyoldbat. I love MN.