To not see the point of suspending pupils from school

[LEMisdisappointed]

Spurred on by the intellectual hothouse that is "my parents are aliens" where Mel was suspended from school for breaching school uniform rules, it got me wondering about this.

The government have recently changed the rules regarding holiday absences so no absecne during term time unless its life or death etc. This rule was passed, i assume, to ensure that all children attend school, especially from families that were lax about this sort of thing. Families which may have children who are more likely to be disruptive in school.

I hated school, but wasn't a naughty child, however i would have been delighted to be suspended! I mean, two weeks or however long off school. I should imagine that many children would feel the same way and some parents may not give a fig.

What does it achieve and isn't rather contrary in light of recent changes in the laws regarding unauthorised absence. I know a suspension is authoried but it would be as disruptive to a childs education (possibly more so) than a child being taken out for the reason of a holiday.

Just wondered

Unfortunately i have plenty of experience of suspension/exclusion.

My ds was initially excluded from school for 28 days- he was 5& in yr1.

Ds was in the process of being assessed for ASD & ADHD by Great Ormand Street during this time.

He never returned to mainstream education. He had never been full time.

14 months later i got him into a special school.

In my ds case it actually helped as it showed the school couldn't manage ds needs or behaviours even with a full statement including 1-1. Most children I've met even SN children, it does nothing at all.

I've got a younger ds who's showing signs of ASD. At least i know how to 'work' the system this time...

If kids think it is great to be suspended they musthave lax parents.

If parents would be angry, withdraw privileges, and be genuinely shocked....the kid might think twice if it really was that much fun and worth the trouble.

Also, if the child was disrupting lessons it will benefit the rest of the class to have him/ her removed for a bit, even in suspendee and parents don't give a toss

LEM

I can only talk from the position that my school takes

If a parent is known to have financial difficulties we supply suitable footwear.

Towards the end of the school year the rules on shoes are slackened as all can see that there is no point in buying shoes for a couple of weeks,

During the year if parents send a note in they get a couple of weeks to buy new shoes.

It is the last type that will end up suspended or in isolation.

"but x is wearing trainers" is not a valid excuse.

Shelly, it worked like that for a friend of mine too, it turned out the exclusions were a good thing.

my son was suspended a few times it was completely pointless and was not for eg throwing chairs/putting others at risk in fact it was so petty i cannnot even remember the reasons now.
it is about punishing the parent not the child, IMO, in my case for being a single mother with a cocky son.

Some children are difficult (whether by nature, nurture, because of mh etc...) and sometimes exclusion gives a break to other students in the class and to staff.

I may get flamed for that but i remember being at school with a girl who disrupted every class. The teachers tried everything to get her to behave to no avail. I distinctly remember how different class was when she was excluded. Its hard to learn or teach when someone is being disruptive and sometimes no teacher can control some students

I'm delighted when I see certain students have been excluded, as are my students who are able to spend at least a few lessons undisturbed.

It's very effective. Not with every child but with some. There is a range. Some children never get excluded. Not ever and never even come close. Some are excluded once and never again. Some a few times. For some, it never works. Some children, for whatever reason, can't change their behaviour to fit in with the rules of an institutions. Some adults can't either. That's why we have prisons.

noblegiraffe
"I'm delighted when I see certain students have been excluded, as are my students who are able to spend at least a few lessons undisturbed"

I will quite happily second this

nkf so are you saying that a person who does not suit school is going to end up in jail? or what?

A boy in my class was excluded for a couple of days after some violent behaviour in the classroom. Those couple of days gave me and my class a chance to discuss what had happened, and what they should do if (more like when) it happens again.

I'm not sure what effect the exclusion had on the boy but it was beneficial to the rest of the children who could discuss the issue, ask questions and begin to feel safe again.

I have to agree with some of these posts. My ds has exhibited severe behaviours especially when he was in mainstream. I dreaded the day he would hurt another child. There were small incidents but thankfully nothing serious.

All the children in a class needed to be considered.

No. I am saying that some people never get it. Never learn to follow instructions. Never learn to fit in. Never learn to be helpful, co-operative and hard working. Never learn not to be rude. Always prefer fighting to reasoning things through. Just like in adult life, some people never make the right choices. They can always be counted on to do the dishonest, immoral thing. Silvio Berlusconi is a case in point though I think he just prefers the bad way.

It is effective as the class and teachers get a break from the disruption and the child should be having a boring time at home. We don't allow playstations, TV etc during suspensions and he gets bored and misses his friends. Once it gets to 3.30 though we let things go back to normal.

@ Berlusconi....
'fitting in' often means not reacting to bullying IMO and that is a hard one for many.

I don't mean fit in as in follow the crowd. I mean the kid that no teacher wants to take on a trip because he/she can't be trusted to stay close and not offend the public. The ones who don't get that school rules apply to them. The ones who are hostile and abrasive if they are asked to sit down, take their coat off, stop talking. The ones with poor impulse control.

Ah, I miss My Parents Are Aliens. Used to love that show...

Going back on topic, it does make me angry that one child or two children can be allowed to constantly disrupt the education of 28 others through bad behaviour. However much sympathy one may have for the disruptive child and whatever personal issues they face, it's completely unfair for the other kids. But I do think that suspension is illogical, given that kids are always being told off for taking time off voluntarily. I think the only answer really is onsite exclusion units - putting the kid in a classroom on their own, or with a handful of other badly behaved kids, with a teacher supervising, and with the option to call on other professional support if necessary. Quite a lot of schools now do this.

Suspension may not do anything for the suspended one, but it's certainly good for all the others.

Agree with all those who are pointing out that suspension is of benefit to the OTHER pupils in classes where a child is being disruptive. A child who is a danger, or who is wilfully disrupting the education of others should be removed in order to minimise the impact on those pupils who do actually follow the rules, listen and conduct themselves properly. Equally, members of staff should not have to tolerate verbally or even physically abusuve behaviour and disrespect-therefore suspension can be used in such cases also.

In my experience pupils are suspended for being verbally or physically abusive; being violent towards another pupil; being CONSISTENTLY disruptive to the education of others (if they tell you it's for a one-off, they're not being truthful); having alcohol on school premises; being blatantly disrespectful to authority. A school is a microcosm of society. Everyone must adhere to the rules if it is to function effectively.

It's also disappointing when parents do not back schools over such serious issues. Which is part of the problem of society in general-lack of accountability and respect.
Rant over :)

Also, I agree with hackmum; on site exclusion often does work very well. But not where a pupil is violent or abusive.

I teach in an EBD school and we only externally exclude for physical assault of staff or pupils or bringing/taking a weapon to/from school. Anywhere between 1 and 10 boys (all boys school) get excluded a week.

It does need a complete reworking. It doesn't really make sense. If a child is being disruptive and needs to be removed, then work out why and address that. Like the poster above who said her son prefers being in exclusion to being in a classroom - perhaps he does learn better one to one. Of course this is far outside of a school's budget and resources to provide.

It's a shame because certain kids go through school constantly being excluded, suspended, sent to stand in corridors etc, get the message that "school is crap anyway" and it doesn't actually help them engage more in the teaching because they're missing huge chunks of it all the time. But no, let's keep churning them through the system anyway because that's the only thing the system is set up to do. I realise that often there are other massive external factors like home stuff or other issues which can exacerbate this, but it still feels like these children are being failed by the school system marking them down as a lost cause.

I know that currently schools don't have the resources to deal with each child individually and work out a plan with them etc but I think that's where the problem lies TBH.

I agree if a child is being aggressive or violent or disrupting the lesson to the point that others cannot learn that they should be separated from those other pupils. I don't know what the answer is.

Schools aren't about one to one teaching. That's called tutoring. The kids who are constantly excluded and/or sent to stand in corridors are the children who find school hard. Not education but school. Sometimes, it's a cry for help. Sometimes, it's something very specific like ADHD. Sometimes it's bad parenting. But schools can't solve all those things. And a badly behaved child can ruin the learning of many many children. Sometimes the individual has to be chucked out for the good of the many.