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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Aibu to think that sueing the church over gay marriage is not acceptable?

564 replies

Orlux · 03/08/2013 08:59

Here:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2383686/Millionaire-gay-fathers-sue-Church-England-allowing-married-church.html

I supported the right of gay couples to have same rights as heterosexual ones, but I feel this is going to far. Plus my religious friends (I'm agnostic) are now having a go at my naivety. Blush

OP posts:
MidniteScribbler · 03/08/2013 13:37

Our bishop supported me from the very start, when I wasactually contemplating this path, and actually counselled me in favour of proceeding. And I value his judgement over yours.

Toadinthehole · 03/08/2013 13:37

Orlox

While I can see the desirability in every child having one parent from the different sexes, surely you can see this is never going to happen in practice. Parents die, parents separate. Society has learned to cope with this. I'm sure you aren't going to argue that parents who become single for whatever reason have to surrender their children to an orphanage.

GrimmaTheNome · 03/08/2013 13:37

Seriously, although I am a virtual atheist, I'd say that my views were more Christian than yours

Oddly enough, I could say the same thing to the OP (only omitting the 'virtually'). Maybe because I was brought up in a church which espouses equality? Which put the two commandments of Jesus above dogma?

Orlux · 03/08/2013 13:42

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OutragedFromLeeds · 03/08/2013 13:42

'Unless they are regular churchgoers who contribute and are active members of the congregation ( they are not ) then they are ''entitled'' to want to use a church for whatever reason'

but wanting equality isn't 'entitled' and that's what it's about, not this specific case.

Orlux · 03/08/2013 13:43

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MidniteScribbler · 03/08/2013 13:50

It's the Catholic Church actually, and trust me, you're no loss to our congregation.

GettingVerySleepy · 03/08/2013 13:51

The research actually says the exact.opposite of what you claim it does, Orlux

"Significant policy decisions have been swayed by the misconception across party lines that children need both a mother and a father. Yet, there is almost no social science research to support this claim. One problem is that proponents of this view routinely ignore research on same-gender parents," said sociologist Timothy Biblarz of the USC College of Letters, Arts and Sciences.
Extending their prior work on gender and family, Biblarz and Judith Stacey of NYU analyzed relevant studies about parenting, including available research on single-mother and single-father households, gay male parents and lesbian parents. "That a child needs a male parent and a female parent is so taken for granted that people are uncritical," Stacey said.
In their analysis, the researchers found no evidence of gender-based parenting abilities, with the "partial exception of lactation," noting that very little about the gender of the parent has significance for children's psychological adjustment and social success.
As the researchers write: "The social science research that is routinely cited does not actually speak to the questions of whether or not children need both a mother and a father at home. Instead proponents generally cite research that compares [heterosexual two-parent] families with single parents, thus conflating the number with the gender of parents."

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100121135904.htm

Orlux · 03/08/2013 13:53

midnitescribbler

Would that be the same Catholic Church that has systematically abused and covered up child abuse for decades (if not longer)? Were kids were routinely whipped in 'care' homes?

Yeah, I'll think I'll say no thanks to their views on what is right and wrong ta very much.

OP posts:
MidniteScribbler · 03/08/2013 13:57

yawn really don't see what that has to do with your arguments. Or did you just start the thread to have a dig at religion? Neither original or clever.

Anniegetyourgun · 03/08/2013 13:58

And yet you happily pick and choose some of their views to support.

JakeBullet · 03/08/2013 13:58

I am Catholic but fairly anti a lot of their views about things. I am pleased to say that both the priests in our Parish are very liberal and welcoming of all. I was hugely comforted by the fact that they did not sign the letter to The Times which was signed by so many priests regarding the right of marriage for people who are Gay.

Their view (which I have heard separately from both) is that the church is wrong and needs to keep quiet. They are able to say this to others but are hamstrung by others in the church.

On balance, having thought about it this morning I am not sure that these two men are asking for anything that outlandish, just the right to marry in a church in the sight of God. Why not? If there are Clergy who will perform the ceremony (and all evidence shows that there are) then what is the issue?

Orlux · 03/08/2013 13:59

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Anniegetyourgun · 03/08/2013 14:00

Nah, I think it's just one of those "I'm not homophobic but" threads. The religion bit is almost incidental.

JakeBullet · 03/08/2013 14:01

....and churches are not the only places where child abuse was systematically covered up sadly. Children's Homes, schools, clubs, the home and in fact anywhere that children are in the presence of adults with power.

The Catholic Church has much to answer for......but so do many other institutions too.

Orlux · 03/08/2013 14:01

Also, what kind of Catholic priest supports deliberate (not through divorce/widowhood) single parenthood? Confused

OP posts:
Orlux · 03/08/2013 14:03

Annie, as the old saying goes, 'even a stopped clock shows the right time twice a day'.

Atheists can agree with the religious on certain things, you know.

OP posts:
GrimmaTheNome · 03/08/2013 14:04

No response to GettingVerySleepy's post.... can you link or quote your research sources please, Orlux?

JakeBullet · 03/08/2013 14:04

Maybe a human one Orlux.

In an ideal world a child would have two parents (and I couldn't give a stuff if they are male/female; male/male or female/female) but we don't live in an ideal world.

Most of the newer Priests realise that and support people no matter what their circumstances.

MidniteScribbler · 03/08/2013 14:05

One who understands that life is not as black and white as you seem to think it is.

Anniegetyourgun · 03/08/2013 14:06

Go on then, you don't believe in religion anyway, how about discussing the study quoted by GettingVerySleepy? That's real science stuff, that is.

GrimmaTheNome · 03/08/2013 14:07

Atheists can agree with the religious on certain things, you know.
to be sure... I agree with the URC who wants to marry same-sex couples! Grin I'm sure no-one on this thread thinks the OP is the spokesperson for 'atheists'!!

Orlux · 03/08/2013 14:08

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Anniegetyourgun · 03/08/2013 14:11

Why stick at two parents, anyway? Wouldn't children be much better off with three? Four? Is five too many or even better? Who decides?

Before you try the "it's traditional" kick, or point to the undeniable biological fact that it takes two to conceive, bear in mind that the nuclear family (two parents and one generation of offspring under one roof) is a relatively recent phenomenon.

Anniegetyourgun · 03/08/2013 14:12
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