To not understand why 'no pain relief' in childbirth is a source of pride?

[bronya]

I accept that some people hurt more than others when giving birth, but surely, it's not clever to go without pain relief if you need it? If you want it and can't get it, I feel for you. If you choose one variety over another, that is your choice. Equally, if your body simply doesn't hurt enough to need it, then aren't you lucky!

How is the whole screaming in agony for hours on end, a GOOD thing? I just don't see it. Pain relief is available, why not have it?????

"Of course we feel sad about our newborns not having the best start in life. We wouldn't be good mothers if we didn't care."

Minifingers, accepting pain relief doesn't invalidate giving a newborn having "the best start in life".

I've seen breastfeeding mothers on MN claiming that your extreme pro-breastfeeding, along with militant (often unkind) posts make them feel like stopping breastfeeding.

Are you're trying to do the same disservice to the natural birth cause?

On a separate note, excellent post Chunderella

I felt under pressure to not have any pain relief. I think a lot of it came from Nct. They were very pro natural labour and home birth and from reading all the hypno birthing material I thought I can do this without pain relief. I did but I wouldn't recommend it I was traumatised after I think from the lack of pain relief maybe or from the third degree tear and ending up in hospital anyway to get stitched up. I think all the hypnobirthing evangelists make it sound too easy. The reality is a lot can technically go wrong. I'm pregnant again this time no home birth, I wouldn't recommend it. I'm using the birthing centre this time I still feel I'd like to do without the pain relief and I'm stubborn enough to get through without but I'm more likely to ask for it this time and not feel like I've failed at the "most natural thing in the world"

True - DD would hopefully have been ok, just not me. DH would have been left picking up the pieces I guess. Mind - then there'd have been no breast feeding - so that first good start would have been promptly follwoed by my failing her again - hmmm. Wet nurse perhaps?!

I don't see it as a source of pride.

I do think that merely talking about your own birth and stating that you did it with little or no pain relief is taken as boasting when in fact it is just stating your own birth experience as much as someone who gives a recount of their own birth experience and they had epidural etc etc

Just as often saying you bf and why you do it is seen as an attack on ff - when a majority of bfers are not actually attacking ff but just recounting their own situation.

I had pain relief with my eldest, managed a few puffs of G&A with DS2 due to his speedy arrival. I'd rather have the pain relief myself, but if someone wants a pain free labour and to be proud of it, that's up to them. I'm sure we're all proud of something that someone could be miffed at

really mirai - where's that ?
Good luck !

"Anthracite actually anyone can give birth without pain relief, if they're not given any."

This point is largely irrelevant to this discussion.

90% of women in the UK give birth in units where epidurals and opioids are available. Only 1 in 10 women nationally answers a categorical 'no' to the question 'did you get the pain relief you needed in labour?'. So most women have access to pain relief if they need it. Some women make an informed choice not to use it. Sometimes it's an easy choice as the women have straightforward and fast labours which they find manageable, and sometimes it's a hard choice to make as some women who opt to go without pain relief will have long, painful and difficult labours. The operative word is choice. To imply that there is generally no choice to be made as to how a labour is managed in relation to pain relief is usually false.

"there are those amongst us who feel that denial of epidural led us to more risky forms of delivery- instrumental, emergency section etc- because we were so utterly exhausted."

Given the number of women who opt for an epidural in the UK, I suspect that if there was evidence that it was linked to lower rates of c/s and instrumental birth it'd come to light?

"I've never actually seen any research on whether women who are not given the pain relief they need are more likely to end up with complex deliveries"

Epidural can be a useful tool in some complex births and may allow some women to avoid a c/s or perhaps even an instrumental birth by allowing the mother to get some rest and regain her strength to push her baby out. I have no problem with this idea. However, the evidence from the UK suggests that overall epidurals seem to cause more physiological problems with birth than they resolve.

"Oh, and deciding what pain relief you want before you experience labour is at best a choice made based on pure ignorance- can't be otherwise- and at worst deranged. If you know you can't have pain relief because of whatever reason, that's one thing, you have no choice. But not when you actually have options! "

Don't be silly. It's quite reasonable to feel that you don't want to use opioids of have an epidural. If women have a strong feeling that they don't want to use drugs in labour it's very helpful for this to be acknowledged beforehand so that they can organise the sort of care in labour, and access a birth environment, which will maximise their chances of not needing pain relief. If we went by your logic all women would be advised to book into a CLU 'just in case' they need an epidural!

"Minifingers, accepting pain relief doesn't invalidate giving a newborn having "the best start in life".

Well, in my dd's case being born with extensive facial bruising from forceps following an epidural, and heavily sedated from pethidine, was most definitely not the best start in life for her. It would have been better for her and for me if I could have had a normal birth, and I suspect I could have had this with more skilled midwifery care, and without an epidural.

"I couldn't have given birth without pain relief. Dd was c section as she was in an odd position and just wasn't able to be birthed naturally. Without pain relief for the c section I suspect I would have died on the operating table "

Yes - because people who feel that there can be strong benefits to going without pain relief in labour really think that this should apply to women having surgery too.

waits for someone to come along with a story of breastfeeding advocates bullying women who've had double mastectomies into breastfeeding

It is ridiculous
2/3 of the world's female population wouldgive their eye teeth for the pain relief we have.

"I'm suggesting that women who are denied the pain relief they need may be more likely to have instrumental delivery or EMCS"

No sure about this Chunderella. Don't know how you'd design research for this, given that women not being listened to in labour tend to go hand in hand with short staffing and general poor care, which then also tend to be linked to higher rates of c/s and complicated birth. Not sure how you could 'control' for poor care and short staffing, and isolate the factor of pain relief being denied. Can't imagine any woman agreeing to take part in research where they stood a chance of being randomised into a 'no pain relief no matter how much you need it' arm!

According to Birthchoice UK the hospital with the highest number of women answering 'no' to 'did you get the pain relief you needed' is Ashford and St Peters hospital trust - more than DOUBLE the national average has a rate of emergency c/s slightly below the national average. Their normal birth rate is just below the UK average. Don't know how much that signifies. It would be difficult to know without comparing it to a hospital which serves a similar demographic.

"It is ridiculous
2/3 of the world's female population wouldgive their eye teeth for the pain relief we have"

You're wrong. Women the world over want a safe birth and a well baby.

Newly immigrant women (going by the experience of women at my local hospital which serves a very high percentage of immigrant mothers) in my experience are LESS likely to request an epidural in labour than UK born mothers. A lot less likely.

Sorry - that should read: "According to Birthchoice UK the hospital with the highest number of women answering 'no' to 'did you get the pain relief you needed' is Ashford and St Peters hospital trust - more than DOUBLE the national average. It has a rate of emergency c/s slightly below the national average. Their normal birth rate is only very slightly below the UK average. Don't know how much that signifies. It would be difficult to know without comparing it to a hospital which serves a similar demographic.

That is probably because due to innorance.They are alien to their cuklture and they are suspicious of themi

Some people are just LUCKY.

I tried my level best to go without for DD's birth, but I had very powerful contractions for 28 hours and without Entonox I would never have managed. I was in a whole World of pain.

Turns out she was frank breech, which made it a leetle more lenghthy/uncomfortable than a straightforward presentation, so sure, if baby is in the right position and you have an easy birth good for you, but don't try to make others feel bad :-/

DD was born by emcs in the end and I couldn't feel anything from the chest down by then - t'was bliss

I've had 3 C-sections but I am always very impressed by women who give birth with no pain relief. Its a massive achievement.

It didn't work out that way for me but there you go, 100 years ago, I'd have died in childbirth so I am grateful for the advances made.

But just because I didn't do it, well it doesn't mean I don't admire people who do it. It really isn't a competition and you're not less of a person if you needed pain relief or intervention - as many have said, luck does play a big part.

Anthracite It takes a lot of psychological effort and drive... Many women prefer to deny their own comfort for the sake of their baby!

Oh do bugger off, what a silly, smug thing to say. Yes, that's right. Ladies who have pain relief don't care about their babies. They should just submit to the pain.

Quite a lot of smuggery on this thread - the faux wide eyed bewilderment at why anyone wouldn't want a 'drug free' birth.

Anyways, I had a FORCEPS DELIVERY with no pain relief. Do I win?

(Was screaming for an epidural but it was an emergency and there was no time!)

Actually, I've just remembered, I had a section with no pain relief. It was twins. I had a CD of some Tibetan monks chanting in the background, and obvs it was AGONY but as I am such a good mother and wanted to give my baby the best start in life I just gritted my teeth and got on with it, you just do, don't you, for your baby's sake.

I didn't boast about it after though, just posted it on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and comment whenever a friend gives birth about what a shame it is they had a drugged birth and how much better it is to do it drug free.