Is it ever physically impossible to breast feed?

[ThePowerof3]

I know that there can be a lot of mental barriers to breastfeeding but what are the physical ones? Is it ever possible for someone's milk not to come in?

I have inverted nipples and ds had really bad tongue tie so it was extremely difficult to breastfeed but not impossible. 20mths later he is still bf. However with those same conditions on my first 2 babies it was impossible to breastfeed because we were unable to come in contact with HCPs who knew how to overcome those conditions. I went to LLL on number 2 and the tt was not spotted but I knew something was not right as I was beyond in agony. On number 3 I finally met the right lactation consultant she referred me on to almost the only doctor in Ireland who routinely cuts tt (yes there really are very few) and she gave good advice about the inverted nipples. Meeting the right person and getting the right support and bags of tenacity can help with most, not all, physical breastfeeding problems the real problem can be finding the right support in Ireland, though I imagine the UK is better, as I found it was nearly impossible.

Judging on MN re bf rare- ha,a!

"The fact you believe there is so much more unkind judging than the evidence on this site shows there to be, demonstrates how much personal perception of other people's attitudes is distorted in relation to this subject."

Yes but this in itself is the problem. We can be as pro-women as we want to be, if just 2% of us behave like dicks 2% of the time that will be the stuff that people remember because it hurts desperately.

Has any research been done into the effectiveness of breastfeeding support online? I do peer support in real life but never participate online (except recently on a thread where it was pretty obvious what the answer the poster needed was and she was clearly very confident). In real life you have so much information from the person you are with about their feelings just be being with them and you can easily just sit and listen and let them explore everything in their own time.

Online that is so hard. You don't know if the person will interpret 'can you unpack that?' as 'justify what you are doing' or 'I just need some more information in order to help'.

So it might be that online support in the absence of adequate real life support is the next best thing. Or it might be much better because people raise issues online they'd never raise in real life. Or it might be that it actively deters some women because it is so hard to tailor sensitive responses to the demands of the situation. Can we know that without research?

Cory, the thing is, with bf you have a small window of opportunity to get things working. If you assume that you have something physically wrong rather than thinking that it might be a temporary problem that can be overcome then you could miss that window. I'm not saying that it is in Any way ok that it took years for you to get a diagnosis just pointing out that it's not really the same situation.

I couldn't bf as I didn't have any milk. I didn't realise until DS lost a load of weight very quickly and just screamed as he was starving.

I had a PPH and was anaemic, saw midwives at the bf clinic (who were fab) who told me that the reason DS fell asleep and wouldn't latch was because there was nothing there for him. Any little milk I did have he took then fell asleep.

I pumped at every feed, got nothing more than an ounce a day! That was on a good day, it was heartbreaking. I was feeding, pumping and topping up at every feed, it was exhausting. Plus I was being told to rest by the midwives as I was so anaemic. I took fenugreek, nothing helped.

A year later I got diagnosed with an under active thyroid, which if left untreated can inhibit milk production.

I felt like an utter failure. Doesn't help that on here there are a few mn'ers who feel they have the right to tell people they should have just tried harder.

I hope to try and bf no.2.

And what's wrong with those car driving responses, Minifingers?

In fact, they are not at all dissimilar to the responses I have received when I have posted about my own non-driving (eye sight issues).

The only difference is that there isn't the same emotional intensity, not the same suggestion that I am letting down the statistics and that my non-driving is an issue of national importance.

Yes, possible. I had a double breast reconstruction for medical reasons and had severely cystic breasts anyway, and while that doesn't always inevitably mean the ability to produce milk is lost, it did in my case. It was enough of a risk to keep the blood supply unaffected and not to totally lose all sensation. I did lose over 50%.

No idea what my natural capacity for BF would have been without the surgery, but post surgery it was definitely gone unfortunately.

Yes my milk didnt come in so I was unable to breast feed dd

"it's very rare for it to be impossible to breastfeed, but it's really common for it to be so fucking hard that its better for all concerned to stop."

This exactly i would say. Nail hit head.

bumbleymummy Tue 30-Jul-13 09:30:49
"Cory, the thing is, with bf you have a small window of opportunity to get things working. If you assume that you have something physically wrong rather than thinking that it might be a temporary problem that can be overcome then you could miss that window. I'm not saying that it is in Any way ok that it took years for you to get a diagnosis just pointing out that it's not really the same situation"

Not really the same situation as .. what? I was one of those new mums struggling with breastfeeding. I was somebody who would have asked MN for support if MN had been around in those days.

Are you saying I should have peeked into some little crystal ball and said "ah, investigations conducted years from now will reveal that actually you are the mother of a child with SN and they are Different, you don't belong here, go off to the other forum"?

This is the reality for a large proportion of parents of children with SN/chronic health conditions: they don't know, they are not told, they have to muddle along like the rest, using the same support and the same channels of information. My situation is not unusual. People think that the doctor will take a quick look at the newborn and then gently draw the parents aside to break the news. This happens in a few cases, with certain types of SN.

And a million people saying "Well all my children got the bus, never had a day's illness in their lives, won Sports Day every year and now go to Russell Group universities"

sorry very late a million cross-posts

No, I'm not Cory. Are you suggesting that everyone who struggles with bf should assume that their child has SN or that they have a physical problem that will make bf impossible? I don't think you actually are saying that but I'm wondering why you are taking issue with my responses that are basically saying 'don't automatically assume the worst until you have explored all other options'.

I have issues with my left breast, my right was two cup sizes bigger as that one was producing milk well! I ended up with mastitis on day 3, had antibiotics then had it again a further 3 times before baby was six weeks old! It was awful, baby had terrible diarrhea from antibiotics and I think that the issues I have (fibrocystic breast) in left breast were causing pressure in the wrong places causing blockages and poor production so I gave up (severe mastitis can lead to having to have breast removed). I supplemented with formula and stopped breast feeding at 11 weeks.

If you are having issues get your GP to refer you to a breast specialist (not just breast feeding clinic, although that's worth a visit too) and they can ultrasound your breasts. Mark Kissin in Surrey is very good as is Mr Beechey Newman in London.

I will never forget when I had DD2, my DC3. I went to NCT antenatal classes for the social side as I didnt have many friends at the time. BF was mentioned and the teacher asked if anyone wasnt planning on BF. I was the only one who put my hand up (angry now that she even asked, why make an issue of it?) and when asked why I said that it was physically impossible for me to BF but that I was fine with that.

Then another woman, who was on her second DC and had been a BF mentor in her previous town for NCT went on and on at me at how every woman can BF, that there is no physical reason why I shouldnt, I needed help, confidence, blah blah. She went on and on and I was getting more and more embarrassed and then I got angry and said that I appreciated her input as I hadnt realised that I would still be able to BF after having radical breast surgery that removed 80% of my breast tissue removed.

The silence was deafening. I left and never went back.

bumbleymummy Tue 30-Jul-13 09:45:37
"No, I'm not Cory. Are you suggesting that everyone who struggles with bf should assume that their child has SN or that they have a physical problem that will make bf impossible? I don't think you actually are saying that but I'm wondering why you are taking issue with my responses that are basically saying 'don't automatically assume the worst until you have explored all other options'."

I don't see why we can't have any middle ground between "don't automatically assume the worst" and "don't even allow the thought of the worst as a possibility".

That is what would have helped me as a new mum, keeping the various possibilities open! Somebody saying "well, I don't quite know what is happening here, it could be x or y or x; anyway how about trying this?" Somebody biting their tongue and not telling me everything else that worried them about all other mothers failing to breastfeed. Somebody concentrating on the issue at hand and not attempting to explain things she couldn't explain.

Actually, there was one such person. It was the NHS breastfeeding counsellor I saw a couple of times when dd had been admitted to hospital. She didn't spout statistics at me or talk to me about the importance of national breastfeeding. She just gave me practical advice about syringes and expressing and hindmilk.

Sorry for deserting my thread there. Thanks so much for sharing all your experiences and ideas, Cory is right about the baby being a major factor in the BF and how it pans out. This thread just reaffirms with me how strong we all are and we should be a lot kinder to ourselves. I gave up BF my first due to PND and have been lucky enough to go on to have an easier experience with the subsequent two. I just hope to be able to help people through and if that means going on to FF well I hope I can help with that too

I still hate myself for this now, nearly 14 years later.

I just assumed baby would pop out, would put her to the breast & she would feed.

Baby didn't pop out like I was told in anti natal.

Breast feeding did not happen like on anti natal.

I had no milk. None. My breasts didn't change.

We had nothing ready to formula feed a baby. I felt like an utter failure. I had no idea that my body could fail me & my baby.

Anyhow, with baby no2, he was born by emergency section & I was under a GA. But I'd already put on my maternity notes that he was being formula fed. I couldn't face that failure again. It led to such hideous depression. So he had a bottle by the time I'd come around. So I've no idea if I'd have breast fed him.

Bay 3 came along 7 years after baby2. I decided I would try to breast feed. Told midwife my previous problems. It won't happen again. I did take cartons of formula with me just in case. Glad I did no milk again. Nada. Nothing. No idea why.

It still upsets me. Everyone I know who wanted to breast feed has done so with ease.

All those I k is who chose to bottle feed never felt guilty.

I'm sure it's played a part in my depression.

I never talk about it. I never get involved in the breast/formula debates.

All those I know*

Is it appalling of me to say I find this thread very consoling? I was so guilt-stricken at the fact that my milk never came in (some colostrum, but somehow never turned into milk) that I ended up having a minor breakdown and being referred to PIPS. I will still have to fight back tears if someone brings it up, and I am far from a weepy type.

I pumped and pumped round the clock for eight weeks, used a supplemental feeding system, and nipple shields to correct my flat nipples, saw NHS, La Leche League and private BF consultants, went to BF support groups, my baby was as healthy as a puppy, hungry and had a good latch, I had hormone tests to try to figure out the cause - nothing. 'Primary Lactation Failure' and a question mark is on my notes.

I found all the consultants/BF consellors, while very nice, worked on the assumption that I was having latch or confidence problems, or that DS had an undiagnosed tongue tie. When they became aware if was none of those things, they were stumped, and I was left feeling alone and a total anomaly. I do wish that BF professionals were given more training or education on this. It was an experience I wouldn't wish on anyone.

I didn't have any antenatal, do they inform people that this sort of thing can happen?

Some women find it easy so the assumption is that everyone else must find it easy. This is a ridiculous notion. They are lucky not to encounter the issues and problems listed on this thread.

I found bfing my first really really hard. My milk took an AGE to come in due to a massive haemorrhage resulting in blood transfusions and so on. Midwives bottlefed dd for a while. Once milk was in she would NOT latch on. Bfing support kept telling me DD was able to latch and I needed to ry harder. She would go on the nipple for all of a minute before she came off again and we would try for ages to get back on whilst she got more distressed and I sweated and ached. In the end I expressed for weeks getting hardly anything out until I gave up.

DS was a dream to feed. Latched on straightaway and have bfed ever since.

So I know it can be really really hard and also really easy.

DC1 - it was an absolute painful, guilt-inducing, depression-contributing nightmare! And I still feel bad about it [ridiculous]. Probably not impossible, but it felt it. With more support it may well have worked.

DC2 - wriggled in a biological nurturing way to the boob and hasn't stopped since 9mo later.

Guess which one has rashes, chest infections and tummy upsets? Yep. DC2 (anecdote I know, but makes me siiiiigh!).