Is it ever physically impossible to breast feed?

[ThePowerof3]

I know that there can be a lot of mental barriers to breastfeeding but what are the physical ones? Is it ever possible for someone's milk not to come in?

Sandberry, I know you mean extremely well, but phrases like 'the energy required to solve their breastfeeding problem' are the sort of thing that actually upsets me, because there IS no solution to my physical problem. I have put immense amounts of energy into my breastfeeding, and had amazing support from caring lactation consultants, but ultimately my body fails me in a fairly fundamental way, and some days I can now deal with that, and be thankful that I could have my children and they are healthy, and other days I feel despair. I don't think anyone could have found the words to make that go away.

My milk did come in but after 6 days and it wasn't much at all. My breasts never got bigger and although DD's latch was perfect, she couldn't get much milk, lost a lot of weight and I supplemented her with formula right from day 1. This was very hard for people (including myself) to understand because I could partly feed her, and did this for 6 months. My health visitors had very little knowledge of mixed feeding and couldn't really help. Which made me feel even worse. I think there is this massive assumption that everyone produces enough milk - but I don't know what evidence this is based on.

Sandberry. So just out of interest how could a woman with completely inverted nipples breast feed? Ps did try all the gadgets throughout pregnancy to pull them out. Didnt work.

www.askdrsears.com/topics/breastfeeding/common-problems/flat-or-inverted-nipples

I've seen women with inverted nipples breastfeed. The difference seems to be that no-one told them it should be a problem, and most of the time it wasn't. It can be, but not necessarily.

my milk came in but i produced very very little milk

it is rubbish that your body will always produce enough milk, some cultures bf is shared because some women produce more than others

i had to have an emergency csection so if i was unable to give birth naturally why would i not be able to produce enough milk

The odds were kind of stacked against us. It was a combination of things. First dd was very sleepy and congested when she was born and not interested in feeding (no drugs so I don't know why, shocked from quick birth?) My milk came in but dds tongue tie was so bad she couldn't latch, she kept slipping off. My nipples were ripped to shreds and bleeding. I have big boobs and apparently flat nipples! By the time dds tongue tie was cut at 4 weeks my milk had reduced significantly and we never managed to get it going again.

I still feel bad and feel I could have tried harder but I had a small toddler too who needed me. This time my children will be 4 and 6 so I will have more time to concentrate on getting it right whilst they are at school and pre school. But I won't beat myself up about it if it doesn't work out like I did last time.

My friend couldn't breast feed because of the medication she had to take for bi-polar. I suspect this can happen quite often that the mum is on medication that isn't suitable for breast feeding.

I don't know if raynauds or nipple vasospasm has been mentioned - it doesn't make breastfeeding impossible, but is extremely painful and can be a big enough hurdle to put an end to breastfeeding, especially when combined with other factors like poor latch, mastitis, tongue tie etc.

I breastfeed ds1 for over a year & ds2 for over 2 years. I was absolutely staggered when I couldn't feed ds3. With ds1&2 I had milk pouring from me. Hardly any with ds3. I could hardly express any either. I was anaemic after he was born but he also wasn't great at breastfeeding & I couldn't sit & feed him all day as I had two other young children including a severely autistic 5 year old who needed constant supervision. I tried mixed feeding (so would feed until nothing coming out then top up with formula) but after 8 weeks I had pretty much no supply.

Yes family dynamics are a huge factor, as is the babies ability to feed.

StiffyByng, your story is one of massive energy and motivaton and dedication - when someone says some people decide not to direct all their energy to overcoming bf probems they don't necessarily mean everyone who ff is in the same category...you are hurt and upset at an observation that did not even include you :(

In any case, it's ok for women to decide not to direct all their energy to this 'thing' - breastfeeding, for most women (NOT ALL!!!), is a question of letting it happen without the interference of expectation of what babies 'should' be doing, and when problems arise, a quick support from a knowledgable person can fix. However, expectations are often unrealistic, and good support is often lacking.....

When a situation requires more than a spot of realism and a quick fix, then some women choose to switch - because they decide to use their energy (mental, emotional, physical) on other aspects of their lives.

The point made of physical impossibility v. cost to mother in terms of exhaustion etc is a good one.

It would have been physically possible for me to go to work when I had pneumonia. But not likely to do my health much good and quite possibly injurious to my overall efficiency as a worker during that period.

Mothers who are in poor health, have suffered severe blood loss or PND and/or responsible for more than one vulnerable child (e.g. in case of SN) have to weigh and balance various risks.

"muster the energy required" sounds very simple- but sometimes that energy has to stretch a long way and you have to weigh your duties towards more than one person.

When I was struggling with dd's feeding my FIL had a heart attack in our lounge. Fortunately, I did not have to get involved in his care, as MIL and dh were there, but if things had been different then that would have been another factor to weigh in. Or if dh or dd had fallen seriously ill- you can't just not look after an older child because you have a baby.

Tiktok, I completely agree that great support and encouragement could help a lot of women who end up not breastfeeding for fixable reasons. Obviously I do, or I wouldn't want to become part of that support network. I had amazing support myself luckily which is how I've come as far as I have.

But lots of people on this thread are saying that on MN there can be a sense that everything can be overcome with enough effort, and that, I suspect, is the result of online support, where advice is given without, for example, knowing what shape a woman's breasts are, or the baby's tongue, or any of the many variables. And that this message can be hurtful if you have an insuperable problem. So I wanted to make the point that if Sandberry and others are only talking about some women when they're talking about needing more support etc, they could make that clear because otherwise it does sound as if that think all problems are fixable.

I share the frustration of many when women say they gave up because, for example, no one ever explained cluster feeding to them, and they thought they were starving their baby. The lack of support which underpins the government health messages is producing a lot of very guilty feeling people.

Stiffy, read sandberry's post again. She said 'some' women don't have the energy, and then described a view about the need for help and support which is your own (and mine, too, probably). You read it as indicating you did not have the energy etc etc and you were upset.

This is understandable in some ways, but you are about to be trained as a supporter for other women, which is a great thing. But you will need to work through the sensitivity and defensiveness in order to help other people, and if you have a good tutor this will happen :)

Tiktok, you're right, and I apologise to Sandberry. I had read an awful lot of posts all in one go and picked on her post when it was a cumulative effect.

I do take your point, although I am not actually hurt or upset right now. I think I felt was taking up the shield for others, and as you know, it's easier to say things owning that you don't say in person! I sit patiently and smilingly through the advice I regularly get from hcp and well meaning people who have never heard of my condition. I'm going to train because the LCs who run the breastfeeding cafe I go to to get my son weighed have said I would be good at it, so I hope I am already capable of giving advice without seeming sensitive or defensive. I would very much like to work through the sadness I still feel with someone as part of my training.

:) Hope you enjoy the training, stiffy

cross-posted with tiktok, that was exactly what I wanted to say

though sometimes I suppose it doesn't feel as if you are really choosing as a mother: if e.g. you give up difficult b'ing so you can look after a very ill older child you might feel the word "choose" isn't exactly what you were looking for

I agree that 'choose' has the wrong connotations.....you 'make a decision in the best interests of your whole family'....

That sounds like a perfect definition, ICBINEG.

I'm always reminded of my poor mother, ordered bed rest with pre-eclampsia when expecting my little brother, husband and older son both struck down with flu and high temperatures, elderly parents too frail to be exposed to contagion, son needed constant nursing and I was not the kind of toddler you could safely leave unsupervised for 5 minutes... My mother is 81 but the memory is still fresh.

I have found this thread in the main surprisingly non judgemental I read one thread a while ago about a women wanting advice on the best formula,s and others experience of it most people replys were I fed my babies, COW and GATE ,SMA APTIMIL . or whatever some nasty sanctimonious cow came on and said so you wont be breast feeding then bearing in mind the op had asked for advice on formula feeding breast feeding had not been mentioned OP replied that no she would nt as she had had radical surgery in both breasts rendering her unable to breast feed, whilst this thread is surprisingly non judgemental why cant some people accept that for whatever reason people choose to bottle feed and leave it that?

I apologise too for upsetting you stiffy. It was definitely not my intention to imply that all breastfeeding problems are fixable. Which is why I mentioned sometimes success is not about exclusively nourishing a baby on breastmilk but achieving the best compromise.

I recently worked with a women with hypoplasia and who had had a poor experience last time and we managed to achieve this time a compromise solution of breastfeeding using an at breast supplementor which worked well for her but might not have worked for someone else in the same situation

Thank you to Tiktok for managing to articulate better what I meant, which was definitely not that mothers who choose to move to formula are 'not trying hard enough' but that there is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to direct your energy elsewhere when a breastfeeding problem is going to require a lot of work to solve and equally there is nothing wrong with choosing to channel a lot of energy into that breastfeeding problem if that is what works for you.

Oh and you can definitely breastfeed with two inverted nipples for whoever asked but it can take some work at the beginning.

x2boys, it is a myth that mumsnet is judgmental about feeding.....that does not mean you don't get occasional individuals making unwelcome and judgmental comments, but when they do, other contributors handle it just fine and it is quickly resolved.

Pleased that things have moved on from giving birth in the 80's then as I repeated sought help for inverted nipples and breast feeding to no avail.
Fortunately all my children thrived on formula and have no allergies so alls well.

Hope nobody in real life makes non breast feeding mums feel awkward these days though.

I agree 2boys i always think, no matter what method chosen, whether it be breast feeding advice requested or recommendations for bottles /formula etc, That anyone who posts asking for the advice clearly loves their baby and wants to do the best they can. What lucky babies they all are that so much thought has gone into what and how they are fed so that they can make it as easy on the baby as possible and know what to look out for if the breast feeding doesn't work or the formula doesn't agree. There are children out there with nothing in homes. The babies talked about on this forum really are lucky. Because agree or disagree with what's posted the parents care enough to ask for the advice and really want to do what's best for their family.