to tell DD she can't visit this friend again

[missimperfect]

DD has just finished year 7 and just turned 12. I am finding it a bit of a shock getting used to being "out of the loop" when I was quite involved at primary school and knew the other parents etc. So maybe I just don't know the etiquette here and am being unreasonable but...

DD asked if she could visit a friend today - arranged by text. I have never met this friend. So I took her over to the house expecting to see the mum (or dad) when I dropped her off. This is what I would usually do. Quite often the parent will even say "come in" etc when we first meet.

But today we turn up, the girl answers the door and clearly just expects DD to go in and me to leave. No sign of a parent. I hang around for a moment and ask a couple of friendly questions hoping that a parent might come to the door if they hear us chatting, but no.

Now I know I will get slated for this but I am not comfortable - the hallway is dark, dirty and reeks of smoke. No other rooms are visible as there is only stairs and a closed door through to the rest of the house. Empty beer bottles piled in a box by the door.

But I decide to risk it - tell DD to call if any problems, say I will be back in a couple of hours to collect her. When I return to collect - again no sign of any parent. I ask DD how it went etc, seems fairly harmless although they mostly just sat around. She saw the dad once briefly in the kitchen. No one else.

So should I not let her visit again? I just don't feel comfortable about it but am I just being a bit precious?

prettybird makes a good point: this is not the start of Yr 7, but very nearly the start of Yr 8. The expectations on her to exercise good judgment unsupervised will be rising. Soon teen parties will become the norm, within the next couple of years some of her friends will become sexually active: these are situations which take a great deal of judgment to be negotiated safely.

You really need to put in some quick thinking here as to how you can gradually get your dd used to the idea that she is no longer a little girl who will be kept safe by the adults around her at all times.

So do people actually do this?

I have not introduced myself to dd (15) or ds1 (14) friends from secondary school. I don't even drop them off, they have Oyster cards and bikes. And mobile phones.

I have never had anyone drop off their DC to my house and wait to be introduced to me. They would have a l

*long wait tbh, I am at work til 6 so if they did drop off their DC after school, no one but dd and ds1 would be there.

At weekends, they meet up somewhere local, they tend to not spend too much time sitting in each others houses, which tbh is quite a relief. But if they are here, I don't stay and supervise them.

The only time I have ever spoken to ds1 friends parent is when they were having a party and sleeping over in year 7.
He had been to the boys house before. The boy had been here. I didn't go round and check out their hallway?

My hallway door is always shut. And it's dark on winter.
Im surprised anyone is allowed in my house.

Who knew secondary school parents did this?

Missimperfect, you have every right to act on your intuition. Your DD is still technically and emotionally a child and you are not being precious, there is nothing wrong with you feeling protective. I totally get where you are coming from. I know exactly what you mean about Secondary School being so different (not in a good way!) from Primary - it is easy to feel one step removed.

It's not to say you have to choose all her friends etc, but it does mean, as her mum, you should still control the environments in which you entrust her. So if the friend's home is really giving you concerns, particularly where you picked up the lack of responsible adult supervision, the best idea is welcome the friend into your home and then you have the best of both worlds - some visibility of DD plus not having to 'prevent' her from building friendships with her peers.

DD2 is 12 but she has just finished year 8. She goes to school in a town about 12 miles away so both her and her friends always need lifts to go to each others houses as there is no direct bus service between the two towns.
We went to her leavers assembly the other week and I only recognised one of her friends parents even though all her friends parents were there.
I never get out of the car when I drop her off at friends houses and neither do their parents when they come here. I don't answer the door either as my DD2 is old enough to answer the door herself.
DD3 is 11, just finished year 6, and goes to school in the same town. When I drop her off I get out of the car and so do her friends parents but I can see that stopping soon as they go into yr 7.

So daisychain, how long would you give it before you allow your child to go out into town and other places where you cannot supervise everything about them?

Bearing in mind that this child is about to start Yr 8, that she will soon be doing her work experience and maybe looking for work.

And bearing in mind that in 6 years time she will be ready to move from home and will need to be totally dependent on her own judgment.

Nothing wrong with feeling protective. But at the same time you have to remember that the only thing that will protect your child longterm is plenty of opportunities to gradually become more independent.

I would just have a blanket rule at this age that you have to meet the parents before she goes to anyone's house

Fastest way to isolate her from her peer group. And if every parent had that rule how would visits ever get off the ground?

The OP's daughter has been at secondary school for a year. The days when she could expect to have met the parents have gone and the "network of parents" concept is surely not to be expected.

It would be really interesting to see how many of the posters who actually think it's OK for Parent to accompany 12 yr olds to the door and "inspect" the home and the parents before leaving their child, actually have (or have had) a 12 yr old

I'm wondering how much interaction OP was expecting? Even if a parent had come to the door and said "hello", smiled nicely and was not too scruffy - why would this have made her feel so much better?

I scarcely know my 9 year old's friends' parents (which is what happens when they change schools at Y3 and you work full time). I imagine by the time he is 12, I will be lucky if I even meet his friends, never mind their parents.

I have never met any of my kids friends parents when they went to highschool.

I don't expect to.

and don't some posters work??? in some homes there isn't a step ford wife answering the door smiling and with floury hands from baking bread!!

daisy, not understanding your comment on secondary not being different to primary and not in a good way?

of course it's different. kids have to develop independence and grow up. I felt intense relief at the end of the school pick up/ school gate boredom years and the school bus independence of middle/ High school.

rarely meet other parents and don't want to.

it's how it should be.

I think kids also differ at that age - some are very confident and streetwise, others less so. My DD has serious health needs, so I've always had to be more upfront with her friends' parents. Otherwise she'd never have gone anywhere. It can be a difficult balance - have to give her more and more independence but also want to keep her safe.

DD goes to a very mixed school compared to primary and it's not a safe little middle-class enclave any more. Makes you confront your own prejudices. Our hall is terrible.

Insisting on having to meet the parents won't just keep the girl safe from dodgy families and their offspring. It will also keep her pretty safe from many families who have thought very carefully about the work involved in raising independent and self reliant teens and have followed a carefuly graded route of putting their ideas into practice from an early age. Exactly the kind of family your child might benefit from in fact.

but I really love the fact that my kids have friends from a tough council estate where shock the front door opens into the lounge with NO HALL and it here's are in 1.2 million pound houses. it's a fantastic social lesson for them and stops insularity and prejudice.

I also have to add that the manners and behaviour of their friends are irrelevant to their social advantages.

I think I met 2 of ds1s friends parents in the whole time he was at secondary school. What on earth would saying a quick hello at the door tell you about them anyway?

OP would you not let her visit a friends house who's parents were at work then?

YABU. My DS plays out with his friend from school, his friend and his brother have played in here. This has been since they moved in last November - I met the parents yesterday.

Oh and DS is nearly 9 and has mild SN

Talking about unjustified prejudices, our previous neighbours in the bottom half of the house (big Victorian stone villa which has been split in two; we have the top half and they have the bottom half, back garden is split in two , left half ours, right half theirs) didn't want the 7 wheely bins (4 for them and 3 for us as they had acquired an extra one as they generated so much waste) at the bottom of the (shared) driveway "because that's what the Asians do"

We were so gobsmacked we didn't argue with them. The answer should have been, " No , that's where all the houses that have been split put them and anyway, did you mean to be so racist?"

Instead, they wanted to leave all seven in the entrance area of our side of the garden . "But that's where they've always been" yes, when there were just two bins and before you moved your kitchen to the other side of the house, so we had been kind . They couldn't understand why we might not want to have to manouevre past a phalanx of bins just to get into the garden even though they didn't want even one of the bins sitting outside one of their windows, albeit on our own path.

So just because a house looks "tidy", doesn't mean to say that the people in it have nice or acceptable attitudes

(BTW, they sold it the house to a nice couple, "they're both GPs and he's Malaysian". Actually, no, he's Scottish Asian, yes they're very nice and yes, the bins, 10 of them now since they added in food waste containers and wheely bins for glass as well are indeed now at the bottom of the driveway )

Okay I will try and give her more independence - gradually. She is not very streetwise and I can see I am being a bit over protective. I am not the slightest bit interested in people's hallways generally (most of them including my own seem to have piles of shoes and clutter) but this one was particularly offputting in a situation where I had not met a parent.

I have already said I am happy for DD to invite the friend around here.

To answer Tantrums question, no even having read this thread I will still not want her to visit somewhere where the parents are at work or are not there for whatever reason. I don't leave DD all day in the holidays - and neither do any of my friends with similar age children. An hour or 2 is as far as we have got at the moment and not if anyone is visiting. I am amazed people would leave other 12 year olds in their homes on their own without at least checking if the other parents were okay with that.

"To answer Tantrums question, no even having read this thread I will still not want her to visit somewhere where the parents are at work or are not there for whatever reason."

So what about when her friends ask her to go with them into town or to the library or something? Why would that be any safer than staying at home when the parents are out?

Or have you not started practising these skills yet? If so- I really do think you should if at all possible. Soon school and potential employers (compulsory work experience in Yr 9) will expect a good deal of independence from her. It will be more difficult for her if she has to do all her growing up all in one go.

OP will you be meeting the parent of the girl before inviting her over to yours?

YABU my DS would be mortified if I expected to take him to the door (he is almost 12)

These are basic independence skills which I feel 12yos should practise/master:

go out shopping/to the cinema with friends without adult supervision

travel on public transport without an adult

make their own way to school if physically possible

be responsible for own lunch box etc

stay at home for shorter periods without supervision

prepare a basic meal without supervision (doesn't have to be anything wonderful, boil some pasta and add a jar of sauce)

do basic chores such as washing up or sorting laundry or chopping vegetables for family meal

negotiate their own social life whilst keeping within general house rules (e.g. about what time to be home/how to let somebody know where they are)

they should also have an idea of basic first aid and know what to do if there is an accident - remember that accidents can also happen to an adult in charge

I'll probably think of some more shortly. For the record, I have a 16yo and a 13yo.