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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want to make myself believe in god?

999 replies

HopHopHopSkip · 25/07/2013 22:55

I have always been very logical and so despite going to a Christian primary school, having a very religious mum(though not in a pushy way) and reading the bible when I was younger(the story version Grin I was a bit of a book worm) I have never really got my head around how god could be possible.

But I really wish I had the extra "something" that some people seem to find by believing in god. I'm probably not making much sense, but I wish I could get myself to feel like there's somebody watching out, that there's something after death, that everything happens for what'd ultimately a good reason/what's meant to be so on.

AIBU to try going to church for a bit even though I don't believe in god? Or am I just being silly, is it something you can't 'make' yourself feel?

OP posts:
ThePowerof3 · 26/07/2013 21:43

For my DD yes, I'm quite alright about dying etc myself

Splitheadgirl · 26/07/2013 21:45

Yes, just to add to Headinhands and Rural's excellent suggestions.....people often say faith is a crutch - that only weak people believe in God.

But really (and I speak as someone with an unshakeable belief in Jesus as Lord), being a person of faith is HARD!!! To see all the crulty, injustice and suffering, yet STILL believing and having an almighty faith in the mercy and compassion of God, and the existence of Him...it is very hard indeed!!!

Splitheadgirl · 26/07/2013 21:48

Headinhands - I suppose we would also say there is beauty in humans...the humans who maim and kill and cause so much suffering.

Shit I dunno...I DO think that nature is crazy-beautiful and for instance when I see a beautiful sunset then yes, I think of God.

headinhands · 26/07/2013 21:48

I've told my dc's that death is like the bit before birth. They don't remember the millions of years before they existed because they didn't have a brain, and in the same way they won't be aware of anything after death. They're fine with that and to be fair as far as we can tell this is the case.

ShirazSavedMySanity · 26/07/2013 21:51

I've read a small portion of this thread. I say, try the Alpha course. I'm 33, I grew up going to church with my parents blah blah. At 16 I stopped going, but at 31 after having children, something drew me back. I did the Alpha course and have never looked back.

I was able to question every part of 'faith', I questioned, I cried, I turned to Christ, I got angry with him, I said sorry, I turned my whole life to him and I am so much happier and at peace with myself for doing it.

You have nothing to loose, do it. Explore. You have everything to gain.

claig · 26/07/2013 21:53

Came across the Christian Gnostics recently. Fascinating but disturbing. They seem to explain why there is suffering. Hard to believe it could be true, but who knows, none of us really know.

ThePowerof3 · 26/07/2013 21:54

I'm glad they're fine with it Headinhands, I would hope for most people this is the case but my DD woke up at nighttime crying and worrying about death from the age of 4, Faith is the only thing that has worked for her and I wouldn't deny her the succour and in any event if it transpires that we come to nothing at the end she won't be in the position to chastise me for lying

Lazyjaney · 26/07/2013 22:04

You have nothing to loose, do it. Explore. You have everything to gain

But explore more than vanilla Christianity. Explore the Apocrypha, other faiths, and primitive religion, you will get a much richer view.

headinhands · 26/07/2013 22:09

""Study one religion, and you'll be hooked for life. Study two religions, and you're done in an hour"

madhairday · 26/07/2013 22:15

YANBU for wanting to explore your feelings, OP. I would say that no one can 'make themselves' believe, but you can certainly look into it. You're on the start of an exciting journey.

If you want to ask more questions please do pop over to the religion section.

For me, faith in God gives a purpose and beauty to my life. I cannot answer the suffering question, and feel wretched for those such as beastofburden - having a disability myself that limits my life a lot it is hard to ignore the question. I think questioning is incredibly important, and I will never stop. But knowing God gives my life a peace, it stills my restless mind, calms my anxious heart. Love it.

Good luck OP.

madhairday · 26/07/2013 22:16

Sorry hih, that one didn't work for me Grin

supergreenuk · 26/07/2013 22:43

Claig

In response to your question. Sorry how it was meant to read was 'that he existed and there is proof to show that even if YOU don't believe he was who he says he was' think that's what I meant to say.

Anyway ......

claig · 26/07/2013 22:51

thanks, supergreenuk

Caster8 · 26/07/2013 23:17

headinhands, I have never read the Iliad or Qu'ran.
When I found the pearl, I didnt need anything else.

Gruntfuttock · 26/07/2013 23:37

Make yourself believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy as well if you want to. It won't make any of them exist.

hadababygirl · 26/07/2013 23:54

Actually, I do believe in Santa Claus, because I believe in the magic of Christmas. I also believe in the tooth fairy, as the magic of childhood.

I believe in God. Too many huge coincidences which seemed (and were) terrible at the time led me to where I am now, and I've never been happier.

Crunchymunchyhoneycakes · 27/07/2013 00:10

I don't know if you can 'make yourself' believe but it seems like harmless and actually quite positive to simply 'act as if' these things were true and live your life accordingly. I.e. treat people like you would like to be treated, let go of those things you have no control over, try to stay in the present moment and so on.

I don't mean you specifically. One can act as if.

DioneTheDiabolist · 27/07/2013 01:38

OP, I am a believer and I can see why you would want to believe but my advice is don't sweat it. You can have faith or not. It doesn't matter. But please read about world religions. It's a fascinating topic. You will learn a huge amount about people and that is always a good thing.Grin

LittleSporksBigSpork · 27/07/2013 02:37

claig - I have a bit, the philosophy is interesting. Many religions have great philosophies, just not the stories used to back them up which tend to be rooted in status building.

Caster - Still seems cruel to me and I see no reason to want to worship or wait around for a deity that cruel, cause that was over 25 years ago, I've lived and the same feeling of connection even stronger from elsewhere since then. And having read people's stories of being touched by Gods across all faiths, I don't see any of them as unique. Maybe it's touching the divinity in the Universe, but I wouldn't attribute it to a God in a book. No more than I would attribute it to Father Christmas or the Greek Gods (The Iliad is the sequel to the Odyssey, said to be written by Homer, who would have believed about the stories he was writing. Personally prefer Anansi the trickster stories but Iliad is more commonly read in schools). I mean, in my previous posts I gave a link showing just a brief look at hundreds of faiths around the world, hundreds of deities, my no longer looking for answers from an Abrahamic deity is no different than you not getting yours from the Universe or Artemis. And pearls are made from grit, easily compared, and have little innate value just a subjective monetary one - not sure I'd want to compare my philosophy to something like that.

The reason the Bible is so complicated because people in meetings chose which books were 'eternal' and which ones weren't, then other people in other meetings chose translations and interpretations which now people in other meetings argue over. The original Christian churches doctrine (where it first flourished in Africa) were pretty well destroyed by the Europeans takeover of the process. Originally it had none of the divinity of Jesus in it - mostly because divinity goes against Jewish prophecies as well as being unneeded in most faiths as spiritual sages were just as important as demigods (The Jewish Moshiah has very specific criteria - which included being human son of David through Solomon, and tribal status like that is only passed down through the father - and is believed that potentials are born in every generation, we just haven't been worthy or desperate enough yet...claiming to be one is not sin or a crime, it is usually believed that they or the generation have failed, which makes the Gospels a bit confusing, among other things). Most of the prophecies I heard about repeatedly as a child are either mistranslations (there is no virgin, in Hebrew it means young woman and her child has nothing to do with the Moshiah and Israel is commonly referred to in the singular throughout, not just in Isaiah) or didn't happen at all but somehow will in the Second Coming which there is no mention of in Jewish texts. That was pretty much the nail for me - if the prophecies don't work then there is no foundation for Christianity, and it redacts so much (Judaism has reincarnation and a system of cleaning the soul both without blood in this world - blood has never been needed and human sacrifice is forbidden - and without hellfire in the next), to the point I don't get why it tries to act like it came out of Judaism at all. And the nail for Judaism for me was in the Mishnah on the discussion of how to act during war, no room for grey or the fuzzies faux-equality that was being spouted by Noachide missionaries either. I will not follow a deity who reveals themselves to actively encourage the power imbalance and inequality of people. I no longer find sense in a revealed God at all - they never reveal to even a majority of the population, why would an all-powerful being ignore most of the world.

Also, part of the reason the Christian one makes less sense, is that the Jewish part of the Bible isn't meant to be read alone at all - quite a bit is missing from the written text as it was transmitted orally alongside among priests - hence why there is no detail of how to kill an animal in a kosher fashion or any details of how or even where to do a circumcision, that's all part of oral law now written in the Mishnah and Talmud and other texts after fears of genocide by the Romans. Hard to read a book when a lot of the information is missing.

I can see the desire to want to believe, having a community and a specific place to look for answers was very comforting, I spent a lot of time doing that, and I felt a lot of pain when it fell apart for me. But facing the world without a revealed organized faith has been a lot more rewarding. I realized whether there is reincarnation or an afterlife or nothing, I still pretty much would want to act and do the same things with my life and I wouldn't want to follow a deity that would treat their creation as the ones in the books do.

Childcareisscary · 27/07/2013 02:44

maybe you believe in God, but not christianity? I don't think it's silly to try going to church. Sometimes we're so surrounded by a secular society, we feel that that's what is right. Though I appreciate you're saying your background had a lot of faith.
As a believer in God (who questions constantly) I would say go for it. What do you have to lose, but you have a lot to gain by going.

WMittens · 27/07/2013 07:36

I don't know if you can 'make yourself' believe but it seems like harmless and actually quite positive to simply 'act as if' these things were true and live your life accordingly. I.e. treat people like you would like to be treated, let go of those things you have no control over, try to stay in the present moment and so on.

Why do you need a belief (pretend or otherwise) to treat people properly?

Tydna · 27/07/2013 07:50

I think that the best place to start is to read through the Gospels
(Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) in the New Testament.

Caster8 · 27/07/2013 08:16

LittleSporks. I find your post too hard to read and understand, though I appreciate you writing it all.
I dont personally read religious books that are written by other people that do not base themselves on the bible, or try to pick it apart. I find it strange that people are happy to accept books and believe a certains persons philosphy, and believe it hook line and sinker. But dismiss the bible for the same reason.

When I said about seek and you will find, I dont think it helps to look elsewhere. But if a person keeps looking towards God in amongst the other stuff, people will find.
So so long as you dont stop seeking God in some way, you will find Him.
You are obviously bright in the extreme, and you have used it to try to find things out. But if I were you, I would bear in mind that people who have SN manage to find God too.

Agree that the Jewish part of the bible isnt meant to be read alone. And yes, bits are missing. The bible says, quite often, something along the lines of "are not more acts of what so and so did written in.. and names another book".
With the best will in the world, and all the effort in the world, none of us are going to even come close to finding out everything. We dont have to, and we are not expected to.

hermioneweasley · 27/07/2013 08:35

Has the OP ever returned to this thread, or has she just started a magnificent bun fight and wandered off?

Perhaps she is a satanist, wasting the time of Christians and atheists for her wicked amusement?

Caster8 · 27/07/2013 08:41

175 replies may be a bit more than she was expecting!

I dont think Christians see it as time wasted. I dont expect atheists do either.