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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To want to make myself believe in god?

999 replies

HopHopHopSkip · 25/07/2013 22:55

I have always been very logical and so despite going to a Christian primary school, having a very religious mum(though not in a pushy way) and reading the bible when I was younger(the story version Grin I was a bit of a book worm) I have never really got my head around how god could be possible.

But I really wish I had the extra "something" that some people seem to find by believing in god. I'm probably not making much sense, but I wish I could get myself to feel like there's somebody watching out, that there's something after death, that everything happens for what'd ultimately a good reason/what's meant to be so on.

AIBU to try going to church for a bit even though I don't believe in god? Or am I just being silly, is it something you can't 'make' yourself feel?

OP posts:
PramelaAndherson · 30/07/2013 15:47

Oh, and Cote, I think it's pretty goady to speak about Claig like that when she is taking the time to try and answer Head's questions. Not to mention rude and sneery. I can see you get a kick of it, though, so...

headinhands · 30/07/2013 15:48

Scientists haven't got a clue. Their microscopes, their stethoscopes and their periscopes can give them no answer, because the Holy Spirit is of God and beyond the comprehension of any mere mortal and is not of this physical realm.

What is it with you and periscopes! When I think of periscopes I think of two things. Submarines and the wedding of Prince Charles and Diana. If I knew scientists got to play with periscopes all day I'd have tried a lot harder in school :)

It's not only scientists that don't have a clue though is it claig.

atrcts · 30/07/2013 15:49

*The scrolls are proven as accurate copies of the originals which proves nothing.

Which again proves nothing.*

Ah ok, so you don't dispute the accuracies then. Ok, apologies, it seemed that you did.

PramelaAndherson · 30/07/2013 15:49

Head, think carefully about a twenty-one week old baby being ripped from the womb and talk to me again about barbarism.

headinhands · 30/07/2013 15:50

Did the earlier ones make more sense :)

I did a real lol at that claig :) :)

claig · 30/07/2013 15:50

Pram, thanks for sticking up for me. but it is OK. I am not offended by Cote. Cote is right to question. I take no offence, because spiritual stuff is beyond the normal world, it is beyond the mundane, which is why many people do not believe in it.

Believers believe it and non-believers don't. That is OK.

headinhands · 30/07/2013 15:51

I'm not saying humans can't be barbaric, I know they can. But you would expect god to be morally superior and better or something no?

claig · 30/07/2013 15:55

Jesus said that children are of the Kingdom of Heaven. they don't know about religions and God etc, but they are already closer to God without even trying, without even knowing and a small child is purer of spirit even than a saint.

PramelaAndherson · 30/07/2013 16:01

What I'm getting at, Head, is that you are either horrified by the murder of innocents or you are not. If you are pro-abortion then you are clearly not that squeamish about killing babies and hence need to give the whole 'stoning babies' crap a rest.

PramelaAndherson · 30/07/2013 16:04

I don't have a problem with God being a vengeful God in the OT.

The End.

headinhands · 30/07/2013 16:06

Nope, I can clearly see the distinction between the two. People hold the bible up to be a book given to us by god but the god illustrated in it is no better than humans. He seems very human in fact. Getting angry and jealous. One could easily think he was made up by humans.

headinhands · 30/07/2013 16:10

Would you have a problem if he got bored with being all 'peace and love man' and decided to dust off his kicking boots?

PramelaAndherson · 30/07/2013 16:15

You talking to me, Head? I have known suffering that you would not imagine in my life and I believe God allowed it so I would return to Him (which I did). I cannot understand these folks who have a problem with suffering in the world. It changes a person irrevocably - and if you seek God in the midst of it - will change you for the better. You will never know love like the love God shows a sinner of the lowest calibre who deserves nothing. That's called grace.

atrcts · 30/07/2013 16:17

Ever heard of a "righteous Anger"?

We're told to "be angry and sin not".

The dictionary definition of anger is:
------------------
an·ger [ang-ger] Show IPA
noun
1.
a strong feeling of displeasure and belligerence aroused by a wrong; wrath; ire.
2.
Chiefly British Dialect . pain or smart, as of a sore.
3.
Obsolete . grief; trouble.
------------------
So there are different levels of anger. And different reasons behind it too. I think it's fine for God to have a strong feeling of displeasure over human behaviours that cause Him grief.

I get angry when I hear of some injustice, and thats ok (so long as I use that anger positively to effect a change), but if I am arguing and get angry and shout, then that's not ok because there is no need. I can still get my point across without getting angry.

God's anger is pure. Ours often is not. Try not to mix the two!

PramelaAndherson · 30/07/2013 16:20

atrcts (weird name, what does it mean?), I think your posts are wonderful and you are so much more patient then I. May I ask what kind of church you go to?

atrcts · 30/07/2013 16:21

And regarding a jealous God - the dictionary definition once again shows this to be a meaning for jealousy:-

vigilant in maintaining or guarding something

Now THAT is a good jealousy. Not the sort of jealousy you hear in every day where someone is paranoid and imbalanced.

Context Wink

atrcts · 30/07/2013 16:27

ATRCTS is an acronym for After The Rain Comes The Sun - I used if for an emails years ago when life was hard and I wanted to remind myself that it won't always be this way. Oh and I love the sun which helps!

As for being patient, I recall being of a similar mindset once before, and someone answered my questions which I am grateful for; you'd be surprised how many people tried to silence me. But I just wanted honest answers to honest questions and was digging for the truth.

As for a church, I don't go to one, but I do believe in God.

2much2young · 30/07/2013 16:51

but don't you think it's twisted to "enable" suffering so that someone will be so down and out, so low, so miserable that they seek refuge in you? why not fill a person's heart with joy and love and knowledge of yourself (God) when they are chugging along nicely through life? Why must we suffer to be welcomed into the bosom of God? twisted surely?

CoteDAzur · 30/07/2013 17:06

Pramela - I don't see anything rude and sneery in that post, and actually thought it was nice of me to have deleted the word "lobotomy" before posting it Wink

You may not have noticed this in the three weeks you have been on MN but we are actually allowed to say "that stuff" and "with a straight face" on MN.

And anyway, claig has thick skin. That is how she has survived for so long on MN posting mainly on various controversial threads. It is a skill you might like to acquire Smile

PramelaAndherson · 30/07/2013 17:09

I had free will to seek God or not, during my troubles, 2much. I chose God. I would not have chosen to turn to Him had my life continued as it was, and that is because it is much harder to be a Christian than an atheist.

atrcts, why don't you go to church?

atrcts · 30/07/2013 17:15

God didn't intend for there to be suffering, remember it was the consequence of disobedience against God.

When people (Adam and Eve in the first instance) spoilt it, everything changed.

God says that He sorrows when we do, but that although we can't expect heaven on earth, He will give us comfort in the hard times. He didn't pretend any different.

I like Ecclesiastes where it says:

There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under the heavens:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.

It's so true! But don't get me wrong, I have shaken my fist at God when I FEEL like He's got it all wrong (there go those unreliable feelings again!) but sometimes, in hindsight, we can see that suffering changed us into a deeper, more understanding person.

You can always tell a person who has suffered. They usually change to either become bitter or better.

2much2young · 30/07/2013 17:16

but you did not answer my question pramela

headinhands · 30/07/2013 17:16

Pram unless you know me very well you probably can't say how much suffering I have or haven't had. I don't have a philosophical problem with the concept suffering as such because I don't see that the world should be any way other than it is. I am however left with a real problem of not liking the thought of people suffering and would like to see it alleviated as much as possible as it has been to soome extent at this point in time in different ways through the use of medicine, education etc.

atrcts · 30/07/2013 17:22

To be honest I was pretty scarred from a prolonged, horrendous experience as a child and it put me off the organised religion part (Church).

The rational part of me says that no church is perfect because, like me, no one is perfect! But I really don't like the misinterpretations people like to impose on their slant on the bible, so it puts me off going.

That said, there was a nice sound church I used to visit occasionally, until I moved away, and now although it's not to far to visit again, I have Multiple Sclerosis which affects my ability to drive or even regularly manage the few hours of a service.

So I listen to podcasts instead for now. I've just given birth and had a C section too, so will be taking it a bit easy for a while yet. But I would like to feel there is somewhere I could take my son to experience Sunday School though, assuming he enjoys it of course, because he is very open to the idea of God existing.

PramelaAndherson · 30/07/2013 17:25

Cote, why the advanced search of my name? Weird Hmm Let's just say I have far more experience of mumsnet and posting nuances than you think and I still say your post was sneery.

2much, the bible is full of examples of God blessing His children with riches and happiness and they still turn away from Him. We are sinful by nature and I don't believe 'chugging along happily' is going to make most people look towards God. You need a recognition of your own sin before you can appreciate God's grace.

Head, did I suggest you haven't suffered? Or that you haven't suffered enough? Apologies if I did.