To want to make myself believe in god?

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I have always been very logical and so despite going to a Christian primary school, having a very religious mum(though not in a pushy way) and reading the bible when I was younger(the story version I was a bit of a book worm) I have never really got my head around how god could be possible.

But I really wish I had the extra "something" that some people seem to find by believing in god. I'm probably not making much sense, but I wish I could get myself to feel like there's somebody watching out, that there's something after death, that everything happens for what'd ultimately a good reason/what's meant to be so on.

AIBU to try going to church for a bit even though I don't believe in god? Or am I just being silly, is it something you can't 'make' yourself feel?

I had resolved not to answer the detractors - who appear to be dominating this thread, somewhat - but jelly nail wall if you get black and white about it. Suffering can strip away self-reliance and complacency, which is a good workout for the human soul. A certain element of suffering is good for one - resistance tightens us up, stops us getting floppy, keeps us awake. I don't mean senseless, appalling suffering here - but even that God will use for your good in the long run, will transform senseless pain and abuse, if you let him.

There are a myriad ways to connect with God just as there are myriad facets of being human/living on this planet. I know of a couple who were so overjoyed at the birth of their twins that they had a longing to thank someone/thing for their great blessing and they ended up with God. Unusual to arrive at God through blessing, though. Which says more about the human spirit than God imo.

springy, can I ask, was your suffering emotional in nature, or physical?

I quite agree that testing of us produces endurance etc. It is discilplining us in some ways too.

grumpy. I think most Christians would disagree with you somewhat there. I think there have been studies that show that believing in a religion helps to keep people calmer and thus they live longer.
But Christians believe that you can only go through Jesus Christ to get to Heaven.

what a fascinating thread with so many interesting posts. I was on the outs with god from about 16 to 26. then like another poster wrote, to my surprise we were back 'on.' I'd encourage anyone to explore it freely, and only be aware the shortcomings of other human beings interlocuting for god.

The fundamental thing about an individual and relationship with god, imo, is that it is a love story. So you know it is hopefully going to work out ultimately, but the course of things does not run smooth.

Now as to the proof seekers, you are looking for a quantitative answer about the immeasurable. Measure the nature of your consciousness that is doing the measuring. Investigate the observer. In short, why not look into bhuddism and meditation.

Steve Hagen's 'How Can the World be the Way it is'
is a very good book on reality, perception, and yes science through a zen buddhist lens.

interlocuting. Never heard of that word before, I had to look it up.
I would quite agree that becoming a Christian is a personal thing. And that other people, including Christians are fallible. And churches as institutions are fallible too.
Bible - not fallible!

It hasn't been physical suffering, Caster .

Another thing that strikes me is further down thread there was a discussion about how suffering was never meant to be a part of this world and was a result of sin. Now we have a discussion about how suffering is almost a prerequisite for being in touch with god. So he never meant anyone to be poor but somehow we need poverty to reach him.

But these do not cancel each other out. Jesus needed to suffer in order to redress the balance, to make it possible for us to be reconciled with God and for the world to eventually come back to it's right balance. While we are in that waiting time, suffering carries on. Like Springy says, Christians simply cannot expect to be exempt from suffering - we all live in this world. I've thought a lot on suffering and faith, and often found that it is in the midst of the worst pain that I know God more intimately I don't know why this should be, but Paul talked a lot about suffering in Christ and with Christ, and he certainly suffered a great deal himself - yet could and did delight in God in the midst of that.

The world is not supposed to be off balance but it is, and while it is God works within that and desires relationship with us in that, and loves us in that, just as a mother sits with her sick child through the night.

hih, sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, but I read the interesting article you posted. I would actually love to think things were getting better, and wouldn't see this in any way counteracting my own faith, as I actually believe the reason we can do good is that we are made in God's image - so good happens, and if it is happening more then....good. But I am just not sure it is....I don't think we can compare the evidence from ancient skeletons with what is going on now, as violence was necessarily part of life in order to survive, so it's an unfair test really...and you speak of our excellent steps in upholding gay rights, but then look at Uganda :( - it just doesn't seem that cut and dried to me.

Long post. sorry

Caster8, it's fine if they want to disagree with me, so long as they don't start trying to ram their religion down my throat. I'm a firm believer in many paths to the same end, and pretty much every religion boils down to not being shitty to each other.

I doesn't, actually, grumpy . That may be a by-product of christian belief and outworking but it doesn't sit at its core. The core of christianity is to worship god with all of who you are. Bow before. That'll set the cat amongst the pigeons, I'm sure, but if said God is all good, all wonderful, all loving, then it's not such a big ask (in one sense; though in another it curiously is. Mainly because we are hard-wired to run the show). And out of that you tend to naturally want to treat people with the same love and respect that God treats people.

Springy, I see your point, I guess I never thought about it that way. But then I'm not Christian. Then again it seems to have a similarity to my beliefs - be respectful of the earth, and by extension the people on it. Maybe the point is that the world is a nicer place if we simply live by our moral codes?

Why did Jesus need to suffer?

Even a mere human mother nursing her sick child would do anything she could to make her child well. That's more than god would do.

God treats people with love and respect? Evidence?

Why do you think the world is off balance?

head in hands - there's a misconception that Jesus was God's son, ie that God was not part of jesus, when in fact he was more than a son as we know it, he was God made flesh. So God wasn't inflicting suffering on him, he was taking on that suffering himself, in human form. And his reason was to take the blame despite being innocent himself, for all the wrongs we have ever done, which we, as parents might well want to do for our children. It's ultimate love not ultimate neglect.

OP - yes, search. You're inquisitive. There's a reason. There are Alpha courses, similar courses on Islam, and Buddhist courses - you can look around to see what makes sense. I was raised an atheist by vehemently atheist parents but then, during a deep, harrowing and long lasting crisis in my life, I found God. I'm Christian, and for many years went to church every week. In the end I find organised religion very fallible. Full of petty: if you don't worship exactly as I say then you're not a proper Christian.

I just pray daily two or three times a day, DC pray every day, and I read what Christ said. I also meditate with a non religious group. Faith in God is a huge source of joy and peace in my life. I don't care what anyone else says or thinks. I don't care that most of my friends and family think I have started to believe in the fairies at the bottom of the garden. If I had known what transcendent peace and strength came from handing over to God and thanking him daily, I'd have done it years ago.

Why did god need to suffer. Why not just say 'you're forgiven?'

Did you say you used to be a christian, hih??

Yeah that's me, your local friendly apostate :)

Then why are you asking the questions? You know the answers!

re evidence of God treating people with love and respect: get to know him and you'll find out yourself.

yy I know that's lame

Derren Brown used to be a christian, too, btw

Then why are you asking the questions? You know the answers!

Tbh I don't think I actually ever asked myself those questions like why couldn't he just say 'you're forgiven'. I guess I'd like to know what a Christian could say in response to that.

re evidence of God treating people with love and respect: get to know him and you'll find out

So if you don't know him he doesn't treat you with love or respect? How can a person know that god is loving and respecting them?

niminypiminy
Re testimony and experience: please tell me how we would know anything except through testimony and experience? If I set up a scientific experiment to confirm a hypothesis, I still know it through my own experience. And since we are unable to confirm experimentally everything science has told us about the world, we depend on the testimony of others.

I haven't got time for a full reply and analogies now, but I'll give it a quick go and come back later.

Sod it, copy and paste from Wiki is quicker and says it better than I can. The replication part was the main bit I wanted to get across.

The scientific method also includes other components required even when all the iterations of the steps above have been completed:
Replication: If an experiment cannot be repeated to produce the same results, this implies that the original results were in error. As a result, it is common for a single experiment to be performed multiple times, especially when there are uncontrolled variables or other indications of experimental error. For significant or surprising results, other scientists may also attempt to replicate the results for themselves, especially if those results would be important to their own work.
External review: The process of peer review involves evaluation of the experiment by experts, who give their opinions anonymously to allow them to give unbiased criticism. It does not certify correctness of the results, only that the experiments themselves were sound (based on the description supplied by the experimenter). If the work passes peer review, which may require new experiments requested by the reviewers, it will be published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal. The specific journal that publishes the results indicates the perceived quality of the work.
Data recording and sharing: Scientists must record all data very precisely in order to reduce their own bias and aid in replication by others, a requirement first promoted by Ludwik Fleck (1896?1961) and others.[31] They must supply this data to other scientists who wish to replicate any results, extending to the sharing of any experimental samples that may be difficult to obtain.[32]

I think most people (across all sections of society, this isn't aimed at Christians) do not actually know what evidence is and what it entails.

In fact they misunderstand so much about the scientific method; just listen to people saying, "even scientists only call Evolution a theory!"

Well, yes, but 'theory' does not mean 'unproven' in scientific terms. In fact, in Mathematics it means 'absolutely proven beyond all doubt, ever'. Something that hasn't been proven is a hypothesis.

How can a person know that god is loving and respecting them?

By getting to know him.

Sorry...

Of course he's loving and respectful to everyone - far more that we realise imo. It's a fact, whether we feel it or not.

Thank you for that, WM. Are you a teacher?