To want to make myself believe in god?

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I have always been very logical and so despite going to a Christian primary school, having a very religious mum(though not in a pushy way) and reading the bible when I was younger(the story version I was a bit of a book worm) I have never really got my head around how god could be possible.

But I really wish I had the extra "something" that some people seem to find by believing in god. I'm probably not making much sense, but I wish I could get myself to feel like there's somebody watching out, that there's something after death, that everything happens for what'd ultimately a good reason/what's meant to be so on.

AIBU to try going to church for a bit even though I don't believe in god? Or am I just being silly, is it something you can't 'make' yourself feel?

Even a mere human mother nursing her sick child would do anything she could to make her child well. That's more than god would do.

But he did do it, through Jesus. Your question about 'why didn't God just forgive - why did Jesus suffer' is an excellent one, and one I've thought a lot about myself - I struggled with it for a good while. But then I began to see that if Jesus had not come and been on the earth as one of us, and gone through that death, God would not be 'God with us' not God incarnate - and have no comprehension of our own suffering, our own lives with their ups and down, triumphs and tragedies. I can look at Jesus and know that he knows how I feel when I hurt so much I can barely go on, and when I am struggling for breath, and when I am heartbroken. He knows. God knows.

If God just said 's'ok, I'll forgive you, it's fine' it just downplays the huge seriousness of how messed up this world is, the terrible things humanity have inflicted on one another. It cheapens it and wouldn't mean a thing.

But instead, he got down and dirty in the midst of it. He spent time with the dregs of society and loved them. He built up women and lepers. And he suffered a horrendous death.

And that's even before the resurrection. He beat death. Death doesn't have to be the end, the final curtain as it were, because it's beaten. I'm not a great fan of penal substitutionary theory, ie Jesus took the place of animal sacrifice, but see it as more of a victory over death. An incarnation, a complete understanding of what it is to be human, suffering and all, and then a pointer to the hope.

So God saying 'I forgive, don't worry' just doesn't cut it. It's so, so much huger and so, so much more powerful and incredible.

why do you think the world is off balance?

Well, there is no quantifiable data for such a statement, sorry! But you know that. It's more taking the Romans passage about creation groaning and waiting for redemption, and the whole theme of the bible - sin, redemption - things not being right in people, and things not being right in the world.

You only have to look at the world, really. The worm that eats through eyes? Is that how things should be? Wasps? Earthquakes, fault lines. Everything is wrong. Everything is not how it is meant to be.

Sorry. That, I know, is far too airy fairy. But you asked...

WM: I know all that. I do know about what scientific method involves, and I know about replication, and I know about peer review.

Peer reviewers do not replicate experiments. They make a judgement about whether the testimony of those who did is credible -- as your wiki source says, whether the description supplied by the experimenter is credible. There is no difference between this and testimony. Both are accounts of a person's experience. If an experiment is replicated then you have two people's account of their experience. There is no other way that we can know anything except through our own experience and the testimony (or if you prefer, reporting) of the experience of others.

racingheart "I don t care that most of my friends and family think I believe if fairies at the bottom of the garden. If I had known what transcendent peace and strength came from handing over to God, and thanking him daily, I'd have done it years ago"
That is lovely ! I'm so pleased you have found such peace.
Jesus said we would be ridiculed and insulted for our faith, and in my case talk of imaginary friends etc just serves to strengthen my faith.
Thankfully most of my RL atheist friends are very accepting of my faith.
OP I agree with other posters who have said be patient. Coming to faith can be a VERY long journey !

And just to add to what Madhairday said, Jesus does say 'I forgive': he says it again and again. But he doesn't forgive as if sin was nothing as if cruelty and faithlessness and destruction and lying and hurt could simply be treated lightly. Jesus is appalled by sin by what Francis Spufford calls our 'Human Propensity to Fuck things Up (HPtFtU). Forgiveness has to be proceeded by repentance turning away from sin, and trying to do better next time even though our HPtFtU means that we need to do this again and again.

In the crucifixion Jesus takes on himself all the effects of all our messing up, all the hurt and pain we cause, all the effects of our lies and cruelty, all the promises we break and the lives we waste and turns it back (the meaning if repentance) and mends it. It's not that he takes the punishment that was meant for us, but that he takes the sin and suffering of the world and redeems it. He takes the dross of our sin and suffering, and turns it to the gold of the resurrection. He defeats death by going through it.

So God's forgiveness isn't an easy one, as if sin didn't matter. It matters so much that he gave himself to mend the breach that sin makes between God and man, and he could only do that by becoming one of us, sharing our joys and pains, and dying our death.

I too like the part by racingheart that tuffie has commented on.
I know there are non Christians who feel peaceful within themselves too, but I also know there are millions who do not.
It is an inner peace. Hadnt thought too much about it before, not specifically anyway. But it helps to cope with your own life, relatives' lives, and strangers' lives, if you yourself have an inner peace.

is that how things should be?

What makes you think there is a should? Just because we don't like reality doesn't mean it was supposed to be any particular way. As for posting bible verses. Seeing as you have no evidence that it's not just a book I can't take that with anymore authority than I could The Yellow Pages.

So caster8, how is a non Christian able to feel at peace? And how come not all Christians do?

HeadinHands: Do you have any evidence it's just a book?

Nope sorry, he could still say 'Your sin really upsets me, but I love you so much I forgive you'. If your dc beat you up and you wanted to forgive him why couldn't you just do that. Why would you have to beat yourself up to forgive him? If someone stabbed you and then asked for forgiveness would it occur to you to stab yourself so that you could forgive them?

headinhands. Because some non Christians seem not to worry about the future at all.
And some Christians do not rely enough on God. Do not feel able to trust God enough.
Probably a bit of a simplistic answer.

You're the one making the claim that it isn't just a book. How would you go about deciding if a book was divine?

So a non Christian who is at peace hasn't made any provision for the future? Nope, I know lots of non Christians who are at peace and who have made plans.

I didnt say they havent made plans.

So how do you know they don't worry about the future? How are they able to be at peace without god? Their personality? Upbringing?

They dont worry about the future, because I have quizzed them.

2nd question. Dont know. I sometimes think they dont have a worry gene, if one exists? And think at a moment in time that they will cope with whatever life throws at them[but dont actually when something nasty happens, or looks about to happen].

So do you think this lack of a worrying gene somehow precludes them from reaching out to god?

What about Christians who suffer serious mental health problems? What's going on there?

Cant answer about Christians who suffer serious mental health problems. Dont have much of a clue what goes on there, and wouldnt dream of asking them.

non Christians. Had to look up the word preclude. Preclude seems to mean prevent.
No, I dont think it prevents them, but perhaps because they dont feel such a need for God, that that hinders them reaching out to Him?
What do you think? I think you have said on occasion that you dont worry about things? I could be wrong, I could have a different poster in mind.

What I mean is if this peace from god is so outstanding why do some Christians have serious anxiety. How come gods peace isn't working?

So if they don't have a worry gene and that makes them less likely to seek out god wouldn't it be a bit mean of god to not let them through the pearly gates seeing as their genetics barred them from faith?

I always thought that the sacrifice of the Perfect Lamb goes back to the OT spilling of blood to atone for sin. I assume that, when 'A&E' did that thing of refusing God's relationship, chaos was set in motion. Which goes on going on, catapaulting into the world, lives, planet (I also wonder that more chaos doesn't exist tbf). From then on we were marked by our rebellion, born into it. Which necessitates a change of heart to be reconciled to God, a recognition that we are in chaos and must make a way back to the beautiful order of things that God intended. But how to get back? Religion would say you can do it yourself by being good, but imo that is laughable: it is impossible to do it yourself and hideous, presumptuous, to even try.

So this awful, awful thing was set in motion. I assume it has a power that is tangible and real, hence the need to do something tangible and real to counteract it (I am reminded of Aslan's 'a deep magic' - good old CSLewis). God's tangible and real solution was that he made the decision to be the blood sacrifice himself; choosing to be born a man and live as we do, and to die as the ultimate sacrifice (the perfect, unblemished 'lamb'), mending the relationship between us and him once and for all.

That's how I see it, anyway.

I dont think peace and anxiety are the same thing, not even in the same ballpark. Not for me anyway. cant really speak for other Christians.

non Christians. They are not barred! I think I have already answered this wuestion.

And I have noticed that you have not answered my question btw! Not that you have to.

Fear is the opposite of love and, as we are born into the opposite spirit of what God is, it makes sense that we are born into fear. People have it to varying degrees, but we all have it.

There can be any number of reasons for anxiety - physiological to name one - but for the majority it is habit with roots firmly embedded in the primal survival instinct (born with). So you can hardly blame people for being fearful, we are hardwired to be fearful.

For some the balance is so out of kilter, for any number of reasons (abuse?), and fear gets a serious hold. Without a doubt, an ongoing relationship with God offers the antidote to fear - but it usually isn't realised in a day. it usually takes a lifetime, is a lifetime's quest. The majority work it out within their relationship with God. It's certainly an opportunity to get to know him better, to develop the relationship with him in a very personal and deep way.

ie fear is a significant component of mental illness - sometimes chicken, sometimes egg. But ime of working with people with varying degrees of mental illness, I have noticed that the resounding characteristic is unforgiveness ie bitterness/hate towards someone who has harmed them. It is usually a legitimate hate - some hideous things have been done to them. But the chronic hater is the one who pays the price - a very high price - ime.

I am NOT saying that all mental illness is a result of unforgiveness. i am also not a MH medic. People think that God has rules for the sake of it but I have gradually realised that the rules actually make the best sense for a peaceful life.