To be sick of the current public slating off teachers!

[Belle15]

Just feel teachers are criticised from all angles at the moment and we work damn hard for very little financial gain or thanks!! Would like to see any of the people moaning about us actuallu spend a day in our shoes.Needed a rant!

I'm doing supply teaching. No paperwork at home, even better

But obviously no pension, 12-month salary etc....

Well, you do get the same salary actually.

Supply are paid at annual salary/195 for each day worked.

A teacher on contract, on the same payscale point, is paid for 195 days in the year, but in 12 calendar monthly chunks.

We all get the same for each day worked; it's just that if you're teaching on a supply basis you get whatever you've worked paid as it's worked, rather than spread over 12 payments.

Ahhh teachers where do I start?

*my old crap senior school teachers but that was long time ago so will let that one pass some violent alcholics, lazy, had their faves, unprofessional.

*freind 1 hed od department at senior school whinging that primary school teachers get paid same their jobs much harder mucg higher level kids more challening-I kind of agree on that one.

*freind 2 infant school early years yes rest of teachers take the piss with sickness so will i if im stressed or bad back they cant prove that. if teacher takes one year paid sick leave then comes back just 1 week they acrue another full years paid sick thourght she must be exagerrating although she as off sick with stress for nearly 6months work related stress they cant touch me.

• 3 dd1 starts local primary for for 2,months her job share rception teaher was off sick with stress more personal problems than challenging intake she only taught 3days. She had other sporic sick days as well as every time I saw a supply teacher used to get quite annoyed.

speaking to other parents this teacher had been on and off sick for years.
The deputy head only met once when we looked around she then retired a good 2years later ill health can never remmebr seeing her yet she was technically employed.

year 1 thourght must get better but year 1 teacher must have had more sickness than wouyld have reasonably been allowed in private sector.At parenst evening year teacher preceeded to bleat o about how hard she worked how hard her job was.

I we ever arrived early classroom was empty,
as ssoon as bell went at 3.15 they couldent wait to leave.

There was another part time teacher she dident teach my dd she wa also parent at school and made it clear she was only it it as was doss easy job that fitted in around her kids.

*Ohh ihad the privilage of being on pta where we decided at each meeting to vote on what money should be spent on had to be something uge benefit of kids, tangible to parents and not part of everyday school expenses.

each meeting a teacher was suppost to grace us with their presence and put in request forms which we went through accepted or denied.

ohh where do I start on this one.

we agreed to fund seasonal craft materials think xmas and easter but our ever digilant treasuer had cheek to ask for receipts to which they said we wouldent possibly keep receipts for everything we brought that we were being unreasonable.

wehn we asked deputy head why the school had no afterschool activities we got the teahers work hard you cant expect them to work on extra for free that they had now power make that happen.

The one who run a very small lego club for limited amount of juniors to biy £250 kit we said we could arnge for then to get days bagpackig in local supermarket and we could match waht they raised and their was no we dont have time to fundraise.

I had huge pleasure in turning down he 10 electronic stapleguns for each clasroom like they couldent share at 30quid each i think they could!

i came away from most meetings with a negative attitiude of teachers who lived in alternate universe.

I did think the £200 voucher collection by parents of a truly crap year 1 teacher was bit much.

It seemed ofsted agreed with me and slated the amount temporay teachers and suddently highlighed how bad sickness was withinin the school as parent of an infant I never really saw the junior side,.

After 1term of truly hateful bully year 2 teacher who wouldent listen told us off and patronised us sayting you read what i tell you to read your child can only read 1-3pages ofher book at night did we leave.

new school all the teachers give 45mins of their time for free run after school clubs for free or cheap.

dd1s teacher this year noticed as id brekkie club and dome afterschool cstuff was in her office until 8am -5pm .

they truly did seem to go extra mile.

Most schools have tas now who do lots in my day they had no tas and bigger classes and have find memories of my junior teachers.

every time i see teachers and unions on tv get bit mad.

their childcare bills must be less than someone not in term time job surly.

dds nursery runs 51weeks a year grants only 38weeks a tear as thats all teachers work+inset days and bad weather days,

since we let the heads let, a few have left as cant hack the pressure of 2 new superheads brought in to sort school out the year 3 teacher wjos been off sick last 10years is coming back as job share with temporary contarct year 3teacher and i just think thank god my childs not in year 3 in that school in september.

I dont hate all teachers there are good ones.

Maybe I just had a few bade xexperiences with them lieing to me every parent evening saying its fie then last day year 1 report no shes behind then in year 2 reusing extra reading help as she passed the flipping phonics test.

Thew newly qualied teacher she had since jan been very hard working and deserved an end of term pressie.

as or breckfast club. after school club and lunches schools hire staff to deal with that so gues teachers get a lunch hour unlike people in other professions ie midwife.

They get reasonable pay and unless they working in sink troubled school then dont know what their issue is

Belle15 We are constantly told we don't do enough, should work longer, be paid less etc. The government are raging a war against teachers and using the media to justify it.

I agree, however remember the TA who is also being told the same thing and has a much lower salary in the first place. Many TAs I know are now doing what teachers would have been doing 15 years ago but are still paid a paltry sum that has not increased in years. Others are losing hours as schools cannot afford to pay for TAs any more.

mam that does sound like a poorly managed school, hardly surprising all the staff were off sick in some ways. Funny though the disproportionate number of sick days if the job is so easy... As your post shows though not all schools or teachers are awful, none of us teachers on this thread have complained about our job? We were complaining about everyone slagging us off for simply being a 'teacher' irrespective of whether we work hard as individuals. If you bothered to read the thread that would be perfectly clear that those of us that work hard, are also extremely frustrated with those teachers that don't - the same as in every profession.

mam that does sound like a poorly managed school, hardly surprising all the staff were off sick in some ways. Funny though the disproportionate number of sick days if the job is so easy... As your post shows though not all schools or teachers are awful, none of us teachers on this thread have complained about our job? We were complaining about everyone slagging us off for simply being a 'teacher' irrespective of whether we work hard as individuals. If you bothered to read the thread that would be perfectly clear that those of us that work hard, are also extremely frustrated with those teachers that don't - the same as in every profession.

We've all had and met good teachers and bad teachers. It's just like any profession.

They do say that you never forget a good teacher. That's so true. I remember 5 from my whole time through school.

It's not the training or the degree. I think a good teacher has that indefinable balance between being a genuinely nice person who supports kids and has a good sense of humour and is a likeable person. This makes you actually want to work hard for them. But and a big but, if you cross the line god help you! You just know that you should never cross that line.

Too strict and unreasonable and you just think "piss off" and lose respect for them.

Too soft and you can't be arsed.

The rest are a bit meh.

This is just my own observation from when I was at school.

It's a bit like the difference between good managers, bad managers and meh managers.

I was just shocked myself from talking to teacher freind about sickness.

Then witnesses it for myself a few had been on and of sick for years.
I dident relaise there were so many temporary teachers until ofsted came out.

I think that was the heads downfall he couldent seem to manage the sickness it was endemic. He was such a nice man shame really.

Yes I dident really have great experiences in year r, 1 or 2.
year 2teacher was out of classroom as soon as she could.
whinging to me at parents evening how hard she works.

Like I say i someone done good I sing their praises.

dd1 since moving after october half term has had 2 fab teachers, lots of fab tas who dont get the pay and conditions one gave dd extra help with readings and spellings one to one and small groups.
she had seperate pe teacher.
The higher level teaching assistant who taught re and covered when teacher was planing time or meetings.

Seeing how a fe staff gave up their time for free to do meet a greets, afterschool clubs and other events the really did go extra mile.
The few staff they had were not off sick a lot.

I have read the thread and I disagree with the op.

Its hard as parent who worked in private sector to hear them whinging on news and in real life and get on with it.

most are good and just get on with it and acknowledge in most cases its good job still do think much harder at secondry level.

As my mam would say what you want a blue peter badge or a medal-The term hard working public sector bugs me anyway as that implies other professions dont work hard.

Judging by end of term primary and all the gifts I think most teachers are appreciated and many say ohh i couldent be a teacher all those kids has to be ajob you love doing not just a job that has cushy hours and fits in around kids.

If I was to survey lots of jobs teaching at least offers part time job opportunities and fits in around family life.

If term is only 38weeks per year then thats 14weeks per year.

I have three problems with teachers - some expect gratitude just for doing their job and they often the ones doing it badly. There is a culture of expecting gratitude and gifts and of complaining about parents and blaming them for everything. Of course if the children do well it is all down to their brilliant teaching . The second problem is that they are used to dealing with children who know less than they do and believe they can act in the same way towards adults, therefore they can be patronising when talking to adults. The third problem is that they defend their colleagues actions even when the colleagues behaviour has been indefensible, that causes me to lose respect for the poor judgement of the person defending them. I would not say I have experienced any brilliant teachers - first or second hand - but I've met both good and very bad. The good get praise and thanks, the bad don't usually get the criticism they deserve.

Children, IME, tend to be very good judges of secondary school teachers and even at primary they may see past handing out sweets.

To be fair to teachers here, there a huge amount of them on MN.
And there are also a huuuge amount of parents here too!
So there are bound to be many clashes.

Teachers come home from work, try to reelax on MN and get parents again!

PaulSmenis - technically, the true 'starting' salary for a teacher is about £6 to £9k. For a PGCE anyway and that doesn't include additional student loans. Many people forget that there is a year of working/training before becoming an NQT on about £21k.

My two pence worth about the new performance related pay and why it won't work:

1. How exactly are you able to accurately measure 'performance'? Here's a common scenario: teacher1 spends a whole academic year putting in the ground work for a child in order for them to become a better learner for the future. Teacher2 in the next year gets that child and doesn't have to put in half the work the previous teacher did but gets a 'bonus' due to a good score that child gets with them or should teacher1 have received that bonus?

1. Or another scenario; childA has a private tutor that the parents pay for. ChildA gets a great exam result. Should that mean the teacher gets a bonus for the private tutors one to one work?

1. Teacher1 has a family that they have to rush home for, but they work until about 11pm to midnight to make sure planning and marking is done. Teacher2 has no dependants and can work unit 5-6pm planning on school premises and marking and is easily visible by management. Teacher2 gets a pay rise but teacher1 doesn't-which is fair?

PRPay is a joke. It is like saying I have this 'special' way of teaching that I am saving up and won't use until I get promised a bonus. Rant over

I can't remember my Mum and Dad ever questioning the teachers about anything growing up, or saying anything derogatory about them. They trusted the teachers to do their job. They didn't have email or a home/school diary to write reams of info in.

But now parents seem unable to let teachers get on with it without constant interfering and questioning.

What's changed?

The problem from a parent's pov, is the opposite!
They may experience bad teaching, of which there is a fair bit, up and down the country if you ask me [because rarely does a bad teacher leave a school once they are there, because they know very well that they would not be employed as a teacher elsewhere], and then they encounter teachers on here!

MrButtercat

"Yes in other professions if you're crap you're out pronto."

Nice sentiment, shame that it is actuality BS.

My close friends and family are pharmacists, opticians, web designers, factory workers, shop assistants, carers, careers advisers, youth support workers, writers, journalists, engineers, IT support.

Barring carers, I don't see many of the above taking a slagging on a regular basis.

But it's alright - if being threatened by a parent and told to fuck off by 13 year olds doesn't faze me, then random Internet complaints won't.

I am now compiling my bus list....

Blissx, performance related pay is shit for everyone. I missed out on a bonus once because my son was ill and my employer was pissed off because I'd taken the time off. They told me as much.

Look, many of us have done the degree, have had a student loan and have started off in a junior position for low pay. I was considered a junior for 3 years and started on 13k which went up to 15k during that time. I wasn't really qualified until I had done my time as a junior designer. It's taken a good few years to start earning decent money. I think it's the same in all specialised jobs; like being an apprentice. It might have been different if I was in London.

I respect teachers and realise that they do an important job, but really can't see how they are getting a raw deal. The people I know who are teachers seem to enjoy their jobs and they are in a relatively secure position.

Life isn't fair. I'm not slating teachers, but really, all jobs can be shit. Everyone in all professions should have a union, full sick pay and a pension.

I think that in the olden days! Sparkling, teachers were very bright.
Now that teaching is much more to the cirriculum script, teachers dont have to be so bright.

I actually feel sorry for them regarding the curriculum ad constant changes. Some teachers I know have said that it gets in the way of teaching, which is why they went into the profession.

As we seem to be getting in to PRP, in every firm that I have worked for that does it, they have a base line for the "raw materials" if the materials are not up to scratch they get returned.

I realise that this is not the case for all firms but it is the case for most.

So if PRP is so shit, why are you saying everyone should have it, Paul? Surely it should be the opposite and no one should have it? Or do you not agree? You do seem to be slating teachers or at least getting defensive. Nowhere in my post did I say anything about how teachers have it worse than any other job. I was just giving my opinion on PRP in general and pointing out that you don't just do a three year degree and suddenly become teacher. You seem to be projecting there.

That was something my childrens school hated. My childrens attendance went low due to their medical conditions. The children didn't fall behind at school, they did better than expected in assessments on return to school, after time at home. My youngest said they learn more from me than at school and would prefer to be home schooled. Goes to show a dyslexic, brain damaged parent can do a better job than a teacher at school.

My DP has been responsible for a 60% increase in pupils achieving C+ gcse passes in his department. He has done this over a 4 year period. His pay has not increased in that time, in real terms it has decreased. Neither has he had a bonus.

He's met/ exceeded all his PM targets and was an integral part of his school getting a 'good' from OFSTED. Again, no increase in pay or any sort of bonus.

I think lots of the teaching profession would welcome some sort of system where they get paid more if they achieved/exceeded targets. It will never happen though. Or a system where they got paid an hourly rate to reflect that vast number of hours worked over the 1265 they are contracted for.

Caster

I think if you are not paid for the holidays then it is only fair for comparison reasons to quote the full time equivalent salary, so that a comparison with those professions who get 5 weeks holiday a year is fairer.

The £21k starting salary would be around £24.5k and the £35k for a long serving secondary school teacher equates to just over £41k.

For a private school teacher with 19 weeks holidays the £21k becomes nearly £30k and the £35k almost £50k.

A head on £100k is the full time equivalent of £117k in state and £142k in private, although I imagine heads work more of their holidays?

I think most teachers work hard but do sometimes seem a little sheltered from just how hard things are in the private sector right now. Many people ate in zero hours contracts with no paid holiday and no right to ANY sick leave. It is a depressing trend and one which the teaching unions are right to fight hard against as with all these things, it is a slippery slope once you start accepting major changes to contractural terms.

That said PRP is an absolute must, as it is in every good teacher's interest to weed out the weakest links, as their poor performance reflects on the way the profession is viewed. The private sector has many years of experience in measuring the unmeasurable so it can be done!