To be sick of the current public slating off teachers!

[Belle15]

Just feel teachers are criticised from all angles at the moment and we work damn hard for very little financial gain or thanks!! Would like to see any of the people moaning about us actuallu spend a day in our shoes.Needed a rant!

[WorraLiberty]

But those clubs are voluntary, Worra. Should teachers be remunerated for voluntary activities or perhaps on results/classroom performance?

Both imo

A teacher who barely scrapes through with a decent assessment and does bugger all else, shouldn't automatically move up the pay scale every couple of years.

But that's how it's been up until now.

[Passmethecrisps]

I do get what you are saying.

I also get the point about banging on on Facebook about holidays.

I try to roll with the punches. If you want the BBC breakfast news every morning you can spot a pattern - teachers, NHS/nurses are rubbish, supermarkets, bin collections.

It's a job at the end of the day. Don't get me wrong, I love it (I was once flamed on here for saying I loved it) but I try to let the bullshit wash over me.

[Belle15]

Well in my school all staff members NQTs included must run an after-school club and from their second year must co-ordinate a subject. In addition to this we have to attend and help out with termly discos and PTA fayers, attend parents evenings until late at night and organise and risk assess school trips. This is in addition to the million other things and yet this would all be expected at my school and not necessarily enough to guarantee a pay rise under the new guidelines. I completely agree that their should be a way to weed out those lazy teachers sitting at the top of the pay scale but in reality this is just opening up a can of worms regarding school politics. From experience I know heads will cut money where they can and if they can get you to do it for free they will. It also adds to the problem of heads promoting and paying their 'favourites' and means that if you are not 'in' with SMT you can wave goodbye to a decent wage

[ilovesooty]

I would argue most teachers earn far less than people in other professions with the same skills set and responsibilities

As a former teacher, I disagree with you. I think what keeps most unhappy teachers in the job is that they lack the skills to be employable elsewhere, let alone on a comparable salary.

There are wonderful, inspiring teachers and some very poor ones.

What hacks me off is Gove and Wilshaw's agenda and their shameless manipulation of the media to privatise education and move it into the corporate world. It will damage education in such a way that it will never recover.

Oh...and of course teaching is probably unique in its tendency for the public to have a total lack of understanding of what the job entails.

[Passmethecrisps]

^want should be watch.

Doh.

The pay increments are not indefinite.

In Scotland we had a system which ensured excellent classroom practitioners stayed in the classroom but were financially rewarded in the same way as management. It was scrapped. Go figure.

[morethanpotatoprints]

We don't use schools anymore, but totally agree that until you've experienced teaching you have no idea. I have nothing but respect for teachers and in the whole believe they do a good job.

[Belle15]

There not their! I am shockingly poor tonight but I blame lazy typing, tiredness and my rubbish iPhone keypad which has a mind of it's own!

[Passmethecrisps]

What ilovesooty says. All of it.

I am not sure I agree people should be 'made' to do extra-curricular stuff. At the end of the day it should be about excellent learning and teaching. It's measuring that which is the problem.

[GetStuffezd]

Hmm, I'm not sure about that. As a teacher of five years, (therefore approaching top of main scale) I'm absolutely certain my class are receiving a far superior quality of education than my class when I was in my earlier years. It's inevitable as improvement comes with experience. So, I think I'm justified in my increased salary for the better quality teaching I'm giving, regardless of the clubs I may or may not take on.

Haven't considered it all properly yet, but I wouldn't be happy at the idea of extra curricular clubs affecting my pay.

[XBenedict]

But it's the same in lots of professions isn't it? Lots of extra work expected in your own time, self funding courses, poor pay etc. It's crap but not exclusive to teachers. The teachers at my DCs school do a great job except the headmistress

[noblegiraffe]

Basing a pay rise on whether a teacher volunteers in their free time to staff after school activities would discriminate against part time teachers (like me!) who work erratic days on a two week timetable, and rarely in the afternoon. This would disproportionately hit female staff, who are more likely to be part time.

I'm paid to teach, my contract says nothing about voluntary activities (obviously) and therefore I should not be assessed on my providing, or otherwise, of them.

[Bogeyface]

Its the first week of the holidays, parents everywhere hate ALL teachers right now :o

By September 1st you will be flavour of the month again.

[Passmethecrisps]

I think it is the same as other professions. The problem is that everyone (pretty much) has been to school so everyone feels they have the expertise required to judge.

I see it with other professions too - GP bashing as one example.

[ilovesooty]

At the end of the day it should be about excellent learning and teaching. It's measuring that which is the problem

Exactly Passmethecrisps The measuring is the problem because pupils are human beings, not machines, and performance management as proposed leaves too much scope for subjective judgement and abuse.I see nothing wrong with accountability but it's doing it fairly and consistently that's the real difficulty.

[Belle15]

I think in theory the new pay system seems to allow teachers to rewarded for excellence. In reality I think it will allow heads to abuse the pay system (which unfortunately many heads will do). Have seen money allocated for SEN children and their support spent on other things to improve the overall image of the school and this is not uncommon.
I completely agree this goes on in lots of professions but I just feel that we, as a profession lack public support on the whole more than most

[spotscotch]

I don't actually think that teachers are any more Moany than any other profession, i just think they find themselves having to defend their job far more frequently than any other. I struggle to think of many other professions that are so slagged off and where the public perception of the job differs so wildly from the reality.

But then again, starting threads like this just perpetuates the myth that all we do is moan

[Passmethecrisps]

Quite right bogey! Although I have taken schools pupils on expeditions lasting one month during the holidays only for one parent to congratulate me on 'blagging a free holiday'

It's the holidays. Have and put your feet up, OP.

[MackerelOfFact]

"From experience I know heads will cut money where they can and if they can get you to do it for free they will. It also adds to the problem of heads promoting and paying their 'favourites' and means that if you are not 'in' with SMT you can wave goodbye to a decent wage"

That's not exclusive to teachers though... the same happens in nearly every organisation or business with weak management. The options are either to address it, accept it, or change jobs.

I don't bash teachers, my mum and several of my closest friends are teachers and I know how hard they work - but I also know that they have progressed in their careers and salaries faster than me, get far more holiday than I do, and are doing the job they trained specifically to do.

[Belle15]

Touché spotscotch!!

[Passmethecrisps]

That's the thing mackerel and that is why I steer clear of all the "only 10 weeks until the next holiday " posts on Facebook. I keep my head down and be grateful.

I also don't claime to be in work for 99% of the holidays either. I lie around on my fat arse worrying about all the work I should be doing

[Passmethecrisps]

Oh for heavens sake! Where did that 'e' come from on 'claim'? I swear my iPhone has a 'make you look like a fool' section.

[noblegiraffe]

The poster upthread who says that teachers get loads of thanks in the form of cards and presents is clearly a primary teacher. Not much of that going on a secondary, although parents are very quick to complain.

Sometimes it feels like an endless battle against the kids, the parents, management, Ofsted and bloody Gove. (Other times it's great, but they seem to be fewer, lately).

[Feenie]

AnnabelleLee Thu 25-Jul-13 21:19:

What do you teach? Please tell me its not grammar, "lol".

It's. Lol.

[Feenie]

Let's all moan about this lot instead

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/mps-skive-work-ahead-45-2063858

[deepfriedsage]

I have zero respect for teachers now, they only have their behavior to blame. They don't like being proved wrong with their theories and couldn't give a dam aboutstudents, they throw kids under the bus to save their jobs when faced with an official complaint, trying to doctor an ed psych report with factually incorrect info and missing out relevant medical information.

Sadly my friend picked up some equipment on freecycle from a Kent HT, with witch hunt attempts on it making mountains out of mole hills etc on families, so I guess its a widespread practice in the profession.