To hope that the CofE can kill off Wonga, but think they might struggle?

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I would love to see an end to Wonga, but we already have credit unions, I dont know how we can change the culture.

IIRC, with our credit union, you have to save first, then you can borrow. Maybe that is what is putting people off.

I think the idea of the church replacing Wonga and the like was a good thing and shows that at least someone is prepared to at least try and drag the reputation of the CofE off the very large fence it seems to have been residing on recently.
I'm just very cynical about how far he can take without becoming the equivalent of 'this turbulent priest' and getting the 21st century version of Beckett's treatment... Justin Welby really doesn't seem like the type to just be a figurehead and is bound to get up a variey of noses in his time as Archbishop I feel.
I rather like him...

oh actually, scrap my last comment i'll get it deleted, i meant the business representative. Not the archbishops.

I've only read various bits about and by him Lem, I've only seen him actually speak once and he didn't come across as too bad. Didn't see him speaking about this as have been not watching tv much recently.
You're right, it shouldn't be the church that gets involved but if the government can't or won't, whether its way down on the priority list or they're hamstrung by law, if the church can do something then I think it should.
kim thats an issue isn't it? So many companies have interests in each other and fingers in so many pies somewhere along the line there will be something that comes back and bites them.

The c of e should not be investing ....goes against the bible etc etc

LEMisdisappointed.... "Not read this thread"......

"rob99 - you are talking utter shit!"

Were you just guessing then ?

must have been but it would appear i guessed correctly

My financial situation and life experiences would suggest that you guessed incorrectly......unless you have any information I'm unaware of to back up your claim.

Rob, you have had some pretty strong views on this, which is fine, we all have an opinion but you haven't really come across very well to be fair.

That's polite Rhino, and I'm on the warpath

What bit didn't I come across very well ?

Just reading back through a few of your posts and I do actually agree with a lot you say.. BUT.. There are also a lot of sweeping statements and generalising about people on benefits and disabilities... And it's not always possible for people to 'save' for a rainy day.. Not even £1 sometimes.

Fair point....but how does someone who is unable to save £1 afford to pay £73 in interest on a £200 loan with Wonga over just 33 days ?

I've just got those figures off the Wonga site.

I know there are genuine cases of disability, obviously, but the numbers of people fiddling the system, feigning back problems, screwing the welfare in my City is obvious to me because I visit them every day. And if I'm accused of not knowing their exact circumstances then in some cases I maybe jumping to the wrong conclusions, but not in every house.

BTW, on getting an appointment with the CAB. You need to go there to book an appointment on a specified day of the week. You then ask for an appointment, and if you get one, you come back at the allotted time, for a screening interview. You then have to come back again for an actual session to resolve your issue. Not conducive to someone desperate for money to feed their child I fear.

How does someone who hasn't even got a tenner for food get a £200 loan plus the £73 interest from Wonga and manage to balance their books.

I mentioned CAB but surely there are other alternatives as the Wonga thing surely can't be a choice at all in your scenario due to the prohibitive interest rates alone. Just the interest alone of £73 could probably feed an adult and child for 33 days so how could someone so hard up afford to pay this back?

That's how CAB works where I live. And you can spend all day from nine to five waiting for housing benefit advice. It isn't always practical with an older baby / toddler.

I remember the glorious days when social fund loans were available having to do that. The shutters went down, the cheques were printed, the staff all had tea and cake and laughed and deigned to give them to everyone waiting at 4.59 exactly knowing full well that the post-office downstairs closed at five.

It was a bitter race and I didn't make it, didn't have a chance with a pushchair. Yet another week spent in February below-zero temperatures with no food for me because I had been counting on that LOAN (that I would pay back FGS) to secure a person to mend the boiler in the house I had been trying to sell since that famous September 11th before when the market went dead for ages.

I was quite lucky though because someone from the DWP gave me very sensible advice about keeping DD warm. I should move her cot in front of the electric oven, turn it up full blast, open the oven door and leave her to it. She was eighteen months old and climbing out of her cot regularly.

Did you ever do a stint at the DWP Rob?

No, but I don't see how Wonga could ever be considered a viable option given the cost of a loan.

For the record, I deplore Wonga / Brighthouse / Provident - my sister has been with the Provy for YEARS, whether in work or on benefits. They pile the pressure on towards the end of the contract and she falls for it every time. She even feels grateful to them because they give her money upfront when nobody else will and feels the same about catalogues which let her buy school uniform in advance at a stupid APR.

DH and I are both carers now but he used to earn £50k+ and it is so much more expensive to have a small fixed income for many reasons.

I can see the need for very short-term loans especially now that unauthorised overdrafts are crippling people and that so many gaps in the benefit system are widening due to welfare reform.

I think your profound and wide-ranging ignorance is the bit that's not coming across well, rob.

Not about detailed technicalities of how the DWP works.

But statements like, " do what they did in 1750.....have a cold bath and light a fire."

And this from someone from Salford, too.

It may come as a shock to you to learn that, even in 1750, fires cost money because you had to buy coal. Those with no income used pawn shops as their Wonga. When they ran out of things to pawn, they died. In their thousands in the C19th.

The Manchester area 1750-1850 has particularly good records so we can track very closely the link between poverty and mortality. It also has its own narrator, Elizabeth Gaskell. In fact I've just re-read the chapter entitled "Poverty and Death" in Mary Barton.

The other way you're not coming across well is that people keep explaining to you, in simple words with clear examples, that things like Wonga act as expensive bridging loans to cover the gap when income is delayed. And you keep clutching your head and saying, "But I don't understand!"

So it doesn't really make you look too quick on the uptake.

HTH.

You are right that the interest charged by Wonga is horrendously painful, and causes suffering to pay back.

Why are you having such extreme difficulty understanding that, despite that suffering, for some people it is lesser suffering than not being able to keep the baby warm and fed for a week?

Or are you one of these people who fervently believes that No One In Britain Is Poor, all up to our trotters in the gravy train as we are? And when presented with evidence to the contrary, just can't cope?

BTW, rob, I get DLA. I could spend it on a motability car, but I'm not safe to drive. I'm not even safe to drive a mobility scooter for more than about an hour, which is a bugger and keeps me housebound.

But if you came to my house for 20 mins you would have no idea of that. You'd see gadgets bought by my partner who works, and assume I was getting rich by "screwing the welfare". And I'd become another little tale in Rob's narrative of welfare scroungers taking over Britain.

Pah. Don't know why I'm wasting my time saying any of this. Don't think it's even going in the one ear.

"How does someone who hasn't even got a tenner for food get a £200 loan plus the £73 interest from Wonga and manage to balance their books. " Well, they don't do they - becuase they end up having to borrow it again and again, that is how these sharks make their money! But to suggest that people who find themselves in a situation where they need to do this are feckless is where you do yourself a disservice. We have been in a situation with NO money for food, electric, anything - not through fecklessness, just circumstance - it was thankfully temporary. However we were LUCKY enough to be able to borrow from family and pay back when we can afford it with no interest. Had we not had that option, I am not sure we would have had any other alternative. We are not on benefits.