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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I dare you to think this benefits couple is reasonable

178 replies

lainiekazan · 23/07/2013 07:58

Dh's brother and wife are very comfortable: large house, Range Rover, etc.

Their dd lives with her boyfriend in a country cottage on housing benefit. Neither work due to depression. They run a car, have holidays, nice clothes financed by their parents.

Now the dd is having a baby, and they are awaiting a new-build HA home in dh's brother's village.

The boyfriend is a professional student (he told me he can always find funding as he is unwaged and independent) and he said that their dc will be privately educated because it/they will be eligible for bursaries.

Surely IANBU for all this majorly sticking in my craw?

OP posts:
burberryqueen · 23/07/2013 10:41

It doesn't actually take a very large brain to work out that nobody has the right to steal your money
hmmmm there are plenty of organisations that 'your' money is spent through, including the NHS, the armed forces, the education system etc etc. are they all 'stealing' from you personally?
and why are you talking about the size of people's brains?
are you into eugenics or something? it is downright odd!

cheerfulweather · 23/07/2013 10:41

Ah, so the parents are financing cars, holidays and clothes. That is shocking , they ought to have withdrawn support as soon as their family became reliant on the state for their income. It will only encourage them to remain feckless for longer.

TabithaStephens · 23/07/2013 10:43

Surely the benefits agency should be informed if this couple are recieving financial support from parents?

BridgetBidet · 23/07/2013 10:44

Well if they are receiving an income from her parents which they are not declaring this is benefit fraud which is illegal. Report them.

But don't think that it means that there is something inherently wrong with the benefit system - it's not designed to support people like this and won't if those who know about the fraud report it.

Incidentally if their parents are just providing occasional gifts (e.g. a holiday or car) I don't think there is anything wrong with that. It's their money, they've earned it and payed tax on it so they are entitled to spend it as they see fit.

Owllady · 23/07/2013 10:45

There is a really screwed logic with the people can only get out when they pay in. A lot of people (most maybe?) who are heavily reliant on the welfare state and the nhs are people who were born chronically ill or are very severely disabled and will never be able to contribute as much as other people, those with severe learning disabilities for example.

I am sure there are people who are lazy and who take from the system when they are able to put in, but most the people who I know who are reliant on welfare care and benefits are those who have worked previously and have had to become carers for their family, children with disabilities, an elderly relative etc. One of my children attends an SLD/PMLD special school and there are lots of Mums who have not been able to work since having those children, they most probably have HA houses but I really do not think many of you would want that life of emotional pain and stress of looking after someone 24/7 and knowing that is all you will have to do until you reach old age and die. I think when these types of threads pop up, people need to put things into perspective and question what is part of being civilised in society and what isn't

wrt the student finance, you can only have access to it once, for so many years, you cannot flit and change. The rules are quite rigid and it is a debt you should have to pay back (I believe most people do)

Crumbledwalnuts · 23/07/2013 10:46

Burbery I think you missed the conversation about being happy to pay for redistribution but not happy to pay for cheaters or people who don't need it. It was earlier up the thread. I'm talking about the size of people's brains because you seem to think you can get away with saying "you read the Daily Mail" without actually addressing the argument. I do actually have a brain large enough to work things out for myself, I'm rather old and very well travelling and I don't need to get my arguments from somewhere else. No I'm not into eugenics, no it's not odd, it's a fairly obvious point I'm making but you seem to be struggling with it.

Crumbledwalnuts · 23/07/2013 10:48

a really screwed logic with the people can only get out when they pay in again - someone who doesn't understand that people can be happy to pay for redistribution but not cheaters or people who don't need it

This isn't actually very difficult to get, I don't suppose people want to understand the difference

Crumbledwalnuts · 23/07/2013 10:49

This is where you say by the way that yes we understand what you mean but actually benefit fraud is very small 0.000001 per cent and think of the bankers and the royal family

(helpful)

Owllady · 23/07/2013 10:50

Maybe it's a bit more complex than that. Maybe people like myself feel defensive every time a thread like this comes up and people start harping on about those not contributing having access to the nhs and so on and so forth. My daughter didn't ask to be disabled, she didn't ask to be so heavily reliant on me, on the state, but she is here and deserves to be treated like a human being and so do I as her carer. I really don't think there is any need to be so rude

burberryqueen · 23/07/2013 10:51

i am not 'struggling' with anything and i note you are still talking about your brain size - well done you if it is above average, but i doubt that.

cheerfulweather · 23/07/2013 10:51

Yes, if they're just providing gifts of clothing and taking them on holiday then I'm sure that's fine.

Perhaps the OP will pop back and shed some light on this.

merrymouse · 23/07/2013 10:54

It doesn't really sound as though the private education is a done deal though does it?

(Unless I have missed something and private schools really are full of children on benefits...)

Crumbledwalnuts · 23/07/2013 10:55

Owllady - if I were you I would be annoyed at those who constantly lump together people who are genuinely in need and people who aren't and just take the mickey. Because apparently if you criticise people who take the mickey you are also criticising people in genuine need. Not the way I see it but certainly posters above have made the connection.

Crumbledwalnuts · 23/07/2013 10:55

Burbery it's alright don't worry.

WilsonFrickett · 23/07/2013 11:00

I'm sure if the OP's BIL bought her a car and a holiday that would be OK though, because she is 'hard working' Hmm

There are countless threads on MN where people castigate parents for treating their grown-up children as independent, and who don't put their hands in their pockets for holidays and clothes and things.

That's really all that's going on here - the BIL is wealthy so treats his daughter to things she otherwise couldn't afford. She has depression and can't work. Her boyfriend is a wind-up merchant who takes great delight in telling the OP a lot of horseshit and seeing her explode all over her copy of the Daily Heil.

Oh and they live in the country in housing which is not a flat or a terrace.

Is it just me or does none of this really seem wrong?

burberryqueen · 23/07/2013 11:00

Grin yes i was going to lie awake at night worrying about walnut's 'brain the size of a planet' ... but thanks i won't now!
anyway it is good to discuss things like this, I do understand your view as well.

IneedAyoniNickname · 23/07/2013 11:16

They sound entirely reasonable to me!

Snazzyenjoyingsummer · 23/07/2013 11:21

The student funding and bursaries mentioned are red herrings. As has been said, student funding has been tightened up considerably. Not sure what the hell the bf is on about with this 'can always find funding as he is unwaged and independent' - what funding? You can say that you don't get money from your parents but that will still only get you a loan of about 3K, plus a loan of about 3K (it's reduced if you get a grant) which will have to be paid back. Hardly the life of Riley, plus you will actually have to study! Plus most universities are removing the resit years that someone mentioned upthread, so you can't hang around endlessly resitting - if he doesn't pass, he will be chucked out, with the debt still to pay back.

'Their dc will be privately educated because it/they will be eligible for bursaries' -if this option was available to everyone 'eligible for bursaries' then state schools would be empty! You can't just rock up and say 'hey, we're on benefits' and be ushered in to claim your private school place. Either he is being wildly optimistic or yanking your chain.

So all this comes to a princely 3k a year. I don't envy them.

aquashiv · 23/07/2013 11:21

The boyfriend is a professional student (he told me he can always find funding as he is unwaged and independent) and he said that their dc will be privately educated because it/they will be eligible for bursaries
^how so^

ComposHat · 23/07/2013 11:25

aqua he isn't.

Either the poster is misinformed or someone is making stuff up.

Has the op been back to her goady thread yet?

BridgetBidet · 23/07/2013 11:25

Aquashiv I suspect when the OP has heard that she's just jumped to the conclusion that he must mean he's getting money from the state. Personally I'm wondering if what he actually means is that he's sponsored by private companies or has research grants off them. I certainly don't think the government would provide endless loans without question. I think that bit is bullshit.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer · 23/07/2013 11:29

Bridget even private companies would want to see results for their research grants, he'd have to be filling in progress reports and so on. It wouldn't be 'money for nothing' and he couldn't keep doing it and expect to get more grant money each year! Definitely misinformed.

merrymouse · 23/07/2013 11:35

Well atleast the OP should be reassured that the BIL is paying quite high taxes, especially having a fuel thirsty car. (or maybe she thinks he is a tax dodger. Christmas dinner must be quite lively in this family!!!! )

merrymouse · 23/07/2013 11:37

And if he is doing research, doesn't that mean he is actually working, albeit not being well paid?

Dahlen · 23/07/2013 11:44

The OP in this thread has more holes than a piece of swiss cheese.

You are not eligible for benefits if you are a student and you are only funded for one undergraduate degree. If he's a professional student he's doing it through independent means.

And if their country cottage is so great, why are they wanting to move into a HA house?

The car/holidays/clothes paid for by his parents are irrelevant. That's no one else's business. It's not funded by the state.

You could argue that it is irresponsible for them to deliberately conceive a child while they have no jobs, but you don't know if the pregnancy was deliberate or accidental and there is a huge debate to be had on the ethics of denying the disadvantaged the right to reproduce. I don't mind having that debate - it's quite interesting in many ways - but I suspect you just want to be morally outraged.