OMG. Are these 'penalty notices' for taking children out of school in term time legally enforceable?

[Utterlyastoundedmum]

Not interested in having a debate about whether it is 'right' to take a child out of schol, in term time for holidays etc. just wanting to know whether they can be enforced from a legal perspective.

I have just read the latest school newsletter and am to be honest, very annoyed indeed to find that as of September the school are changing its policy on authorising absences. Until now it's always been on a case by case basis but now they are saying no absence will be authorised whatsoever no matter what, except for one day for weddings ( with proof!)

The penalty is £60 or £120.

Not very fair on any parents such as myself who booked a holiday for a week in October as we really CANNOT get away in half term this year.

I will not be paying unless this is legally enforcible!!

Exactly giddy

motownit's you who doesn't understand.

school being downgraded by Ofsted because they aren't achieving 95% attendance levels,

???- please name a school this has happened to? 2 weeks is 94.7%.

teachers missing out on pay progression regardless of how talented they are because their lesson observations are downgraded because some of the children have missed out on earlier learning and therefore can't demonstrate they're moving on,

??? not if planned absence and children and parents are motivated.

Heads being sacked because the school's Ofsted status has been downgraded....

???Oh do tell about the school that allowed a child to have a holiday and then go the head sacked. Come on - planned holiday is not the problem here!

sooty, why can't we discuss whether holidays are educational?

But what is the point of the change?

You could always get a penalty fine if you had unauthorised absence.

Holidays because they were cheaper in term time was never a reason for them to be authorised.

Now even reasons which would have been OK this year in the HT's judgement are not as of September. It's ridiculous.

It may be hard for you to understand this but it really won't hurt anyone at all.

No-one? Not the Headteacher who loses his job because he hasn't improved attendance since the school was put into special measures? Or his family who suffer financial hardship as a result? Not the teachers who lose motivation because no matter how hard they work, they can't evidence the pupil progress needed to progress their own careers? Not the pupils who have a procession of supply teachers covering for staff with long-term, stress-related conditions? Not the school Governors who are ultimately responsible for making those decisions and for standards within the school?

Noone is saying the system is fair, right or balanced - but imo those parents who are choosing to withdraw children from school and pay the fine despite those consequences are showing a disgusting lack of respect for the professionals who care they place their DCs in every day. I'm not surprised the teaching profession is in crisis if MN is representative of the attitude of parents across the country.

I didn't say it couldn't be discussed. It doesn't have any practical relevance in terms of government policy and implementation though.

motown are you involved in education in any way? It seems to me that you have no understanding at all of how policy is going and what is happening as a result.

PPW please provide evidence of the Head who would lose his job if I took my family on a holiday to see their GPs and know about their culture.

Do tell me about this Headteacher who lost his to her job - surely it would be all over the news and rightly so as he or she could claim unfair dismissal!

It's not always about living within your means, my DH's annual leave is allocated to him.

Some years it's in the school holidays, but mostly it isn't.

Next year he has been allocated the week after the May half term, so that is when we are going away.

We've never done it before - I usually take them away on my own, we've only had 1 family holiday that DH has been on since my eldest started school.

Yes I'm still waiting for the link to the head who got sacked.. which I research some bargain flights...

motown If you want evidence if how attendance is leading to Intervention by OFSTED and Headteachers being fired - check out today's media coverage about Norfolk and the Isle of Wight Education systems - it's all there!

The Ofsted criteria has recently changed, and one of the criteria that schools are now being assessed against is attendance levels. Ofsted do not care whether a child is absent for a holiday or to hang around smoking on a street corner. Absence is absence. If a school that is currently Ofsted rated 'good' cannot increase their attendance, or maintain it above 95%, there is a strong possibility that at the next Ofsted assessment they will not receive a 'good' status.

This reflects directly on the Head, as it is seen as poor performance, and they may lose their job.

I do not have a problem with the rules regarding holidays being upheld. However that is only the tip of the iceberg.

I have a talented performing daughter. Last year she danced in a professional pantomime that required her to be off school for five afternoons. This was authorised. This year it won't be under the new rules. I phoned our local lea, they tell me it is still at the discretion of the ht. phoned the ht, she says that is not what she has been told! She tells me the ONLY time she is allowed to authorise time off is:

Bereavement
A parent home from the forces
Religious observance
Genuine illness.

She had asked about my daughters circumstances an was told that she was not to authorise for auditions/performance or even exams (which in the past has been classed as education off site). These Apparently should all take place outside of school. In an ideal world maybe. But in reality it is hard enough to get an examiner as it is, if you cut that down to weekends it will be virtually impossible! And the reason for time of for panto is for matinee performances.

For this reason I am seriously considering home ed. but I am far from happy at the thought that I am being forced into this. Especially as my daughters attendance was 92%, even with her performance, exams and a week of being poorly!

PP absolutely. Add to that the numbers of teachers whose pupils' progress is compromised so that they then end up on capability. Of course if they are older and expensive it's a good excuse for that shiny academy to force them out and employ someone cheaper. And of course the parent who took children out of school will have played their part in driving forward that academy agenda.

How exactly do you claim unfair dismissal if you're sacked for failing to meet performance targets, motown ?

Especially as my daughters attendance was 92%, even with her performance, exams and a week of being poorly!

I'm not sure I agree that 92% attendance is a positive achievement - 90% attendance can be achieved by a DC missing half a day of school every week.

ILovesooty - if a HT was sacked because my child took a 2 week educational holiday in term holiday I would gladly be his or her witness in a ET. Because it would be unfair to the HT.

Oh and I have searched but still have not found the example of the HT being fired for such an instance.

I could understand if she was under achieving; she isn't. I could understand if she also had time off for holidays. She doesn't. I could even understand if she wasn't making up the work; I always ask for work to e sent home (even when she is ill) and make sure it is completed and she has understood the work. But she is top of the class for most subjects and above average for everything. Why should she be penalised for achievements?

^^If a school that is currently Ofsted rated 'good' cannot increase their attendance, or maintain it above 95%, there is a strong possibility that at the next Ofsted assessment they will not receive a 'good' status.

Really? Only we were Ofsteded recently under the new regime and the only thing it affected was that it dragged down the grade given under health and welfare of pupils, which also incorporates attendance. I mean, it was just one part of the report, rather than to do with the overall assessment.

How exactly do you claim unfair dismissal if you're sacked for failing to meet performance targets, motown ?

Exactly. It's horrible having to put Headteachers through it for something that is clearly totally outside their control - but the reality is that a Headteacher is required to maintain attendance at a certain level, and if they don't, they will have failed to meet their Performance Management Targets (set by the Governors based on OFSTED requirements).

I've seen Headteachers plead, beg, and cajole parents into rethinking their attitude to school abscence - but, just like here on MN, there are too many who refuse to accept the rules. It's the same parents who are kicking up a stink about the schools OFSTED findings.

Thanks wallison

^^It's the same parents who are kicking up a stink about the schools OFSTED findings.

Did the voices in your head tell you that? If not, how can you possibly know.

Lots of eyewash on this thread.

PPN please do give the evidence regarding the HT who lost their job because of a 2 week holiday that a pupil had....

still waiting......

I see, so this has nothing to do with what might best suit or enrich each child, it's more to do with schools improving attendance statistics?

Has it occurred to anyone that the system might be the problem here, rather than the parents?

Yes how sensible of the government to pit parents and teachers against each other and make us all aware that we are engaged in a legally enforceable contract instead of working together to create an amazing educational experience for our children.

A school can't get an overall 'outstanding' if the Welfare and Safety section isn't good or above - so even if the school is outstanding in all other areas, it won't get an overall
Outstanding if attendance is below 95%.

Similarly, it's almost impossible to get a school out if Special Measures unless attendance improves significantly.