OMG. Are these 'penalty notices' for taking children out of school in term time legally enforceable?

[Utterlyastoundedmum]

Not interested in having a debate about whether it is 'right' to take a child out of schol, in term time for holidays etc. just wanting to know whether they can be enforced from a legal perspective.

I have just read the latest school newsletter and am to be honest, very annoyed indeed to find that as of September the school are changing its policy on authorising absences. Until now it's always been on a case by case basis but now they are saying no absence will be authorised whatsoever no matter what, except for one day for weddings ( with proof!)

The penalty is £60 or £120.

Not very fair on any parents such as myself who booked a holiday for a week in October as we really CANNOT get away in half term this year.

I will not be paying unless this is legally enforcible!!

Humanity can be awful. Some people just think they are above the rules.

PrettyPaperweight basically the school year is outdated and does not work for working parents - so stop being so silly!

well, as Gove intends to give schools the autonomy to change the school year, that should solve the problem for working parents who can petition the school to change the term dates to suit them, hence increasing attendance

I think I am above some rules, yes. The rules that take away my judgement, as a parent, to make choices for my family. I am a fairly educated woman. I know that a week away from school isn't going to fuck up my child's chances in life. I am using my judgement on this to say yes, I am above this rule instead of just blindly following it because I am told to by fuckwits in office.

I forgot though. On MN, only the rich middles can enjoy the naice things in life. The poor can just fuck off and make do with whatever gets handed down to them, eh?

I must be living at MNHQ then - cos my life is really like that - I call it 'living within my means'

^^Or is an annual holiday a necessary part of family life?

It's not necessary but it is important, I think. Seeing different things, going to different places, talking to different people - all of these things enrich a life. Not to mention just the sheer quality of the time you have together as a family when you're on holiday, away from the detritus of everyday life. You act differently, you talk differently, you interact in a different way.

As for whether or not people 'should' have this, I personally think they should. I've said this before, but even back in the bad old days, factories would close down and workers would take their families to the coast for a week. So if you don't think people on low incomes should have the chance to go on holiday, then you are worse than the worst type of Gradgrind.

I guess there is no telling some eh marmalade? I'm pleased you're fairly educated because if you keep taking your kids out of school they aren't going to be.

Living within means can mean being able to afford a holiday. Just not at the outrageously over-inflated prices they are sold at in July/August.

PGRated Wish my tenants would take that view. "Sorry we haven't paid any rent for the last two months and we're not going to but we're going away with the kids on holiday."

Never mind that it puts my family holiday, in the school holidays, over the only two weeks hubby has had off this year, in real danger of not happening.

I'm sure I'll be the 'big baddie' when the eviction notice lands.

If I KEEP taking my kids out? Once a year? They won't be educated? What planet are you on?

Everyone should have the opportunity Wallison, during holiday time.

anklebitersmum, maybe being a landlord isn't the job for you if you can't accommodate a two-week haitus in your cash-flow. You also sound very tense. Get a proper job, maybe?

I guess there is no telling some eh marmalade? I'm pleased you're fairly educated because if you keep taking your kids out of school they aren't going to be.

Did you read my contribution above? Do you think I really live in a box?

Which character is it in Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends, that keeps saying, nasally, "The rules are there to be followed."?

^^Everyone should have the opportunity Wallison, during holiday time.

Yes, but they don't, because holidays cost so much during peak times. So for many people, the only way to have that opportunity is to go during term-time.

I don't agree with taking kids out of school either.

However, I did allow mine two days off last term. Their dad is going through more cancer treatment and as the cancer keeps returning we never know when it is going to be the last holiday they get with him.

Their dad wanted a few days with them before treatment because he doesn't how often he will get to see them for a while if it turns out he needs more chemo. He is currently having a top up of marrow cells from his donor but chemo may be needed and he will have to stay in a hospital 4 hours away from us.

To me that is an expectational circumstance but apart from that I wouldn't dream of taking them away just for the sake of it.

School is not an option, there has to be a darn good reason for mine to miss any.

Anklebitersmum that's a shitty situation. I suppose you will be called the 'big baddie' for protecting your assets. Some MNetters will say your tenants had no bloody choice - as they have a right to take their kids on holiday. They can't do without because that would be cruel.....

Wallison I beg your pardon??

My God, the very cheek of some people.

Perhaps I should get a proper job. Like what, pray tell, enlighten me, do.

Or perhaps I should leave my husband and go in live in our house with our children.

and write off the actually 7 months rent and solicitors fees knobhead

Marmalade, it does not suit me not to have a holiday. I would LOVE to have a holiday, but unfortunately do not have the option of taking my family outside of term time, therefore cannot have a holiday. We actually DO take breaks, for example camping, ensuring that they are within our financial means.

Unfortunately, teachers cannot simply choose to take themselves and their families away during term time when it is cheaper because, rather than simply being fined, they would lose their jobs. Not to mention the outrage - how would you feel if your DC's teacher didn't turn up for two weeks because they fancied a fortnight in the sun?

And please don't start using 'well, he knew that when he signed up to be a teacher' argument. Yes he did, and we have accepted it, but unless you didn't grow up in the UK, in which case I forgive you for the misunderstanding, you will have been part of the education system here at some point and therefore always knew that children are expected to be at school during term time. When you had kids, you were therefore signing up to this.

It has never been OK for kids to be taken out of school as and when it suits parents, hence you've always had to ask the HT's permission. The only difference is that now it is being enforced that kids are expected to be in school.

I think I am above some rules, yes

The route to anarchy, maybe?

What if another person believed they were above the rules that prevent them stealing from you? Would that be OK - as long as they used their profit to pay for a holiday for their family? Or is it the case that only the rules you think are unnecessary can be broken by anyone?

Surely the point is that, rather than trying to get Gove to drop the fines (which I suspect is not likely to happen) we should unite and petition on is not the fines, but getting the government to stop holiday companies and airlines from raising the cost of flights and holidays so ridiculously during 'peak' season.

A couple of years ago there was talk of this happening but it has fallen off the agenda.

Oh come on PPW - this is getting so silly.

Missing a few weeks of school won't do anyone any harm if you have motivated kids and parents.

It may be hard for you to understand this but it really won't hurt anyone at all.

Thing is, this does nothing to address the problem of persistent non-attendance, which is the real issue in schools. At my ds's school, there are plenty of kids there who rock up 45 minutes late every day, or who only go in at all because a member of staff goes to their house, bangs on the door and drives them to school themselves. Those are the children who are really missing out on their education. And they are missing out not because their parents don't care but because they aren't coping - because of illness, or addiction, or intolerable outside pressures which are impacting on their ability to run a family home. None of this will be helped by issuing fines for going on holiday.

Prettypaperweight, that isn't anarchy, that's just another form of government, by thieves. Anarchy is where no one tells anyone what to do.

motownmover unless you are bothered by your school being downgraded by Ofsted because they aren't achieving 95% attendance levels, teachers missing out on pay progression regardless of how talented they are because their lesson observations are downgraded because some of the children have missed out on earlier learning and therefore can't demonstrate they're moving on, Heads being sacked because the school's Ofsted status has been downgraded....

Well, it will be interesting to see if you feel differently about being above the rules that apply to others if your child loses his place on the school roll and you have difficulty getting him a place elsewhere.

I'm also surprised at the number of people who are still focusing on the role of the school and whether holidays are educational. Neither of those points is relevant to the argument.

The government intends to enforce this. If fining doesn't work they will look at ways of enforcement that will.