OMG. Are these 'penalty notices' for taking children out of school in term time legally enforceable?

[Utterlyastoundedmum]

Not interested in having a debate about whether it is 'right' to take a child out of schol, in term time for holidays etc. just wanting to know whether they can be enforced from a legal perspective.

I have just read the latest school newsletter and am to be honest, very annoyed indeed to find that as of September the school are changing its policy on authorising absences. Until now it's always been on a case by case basis but now they are saying no absence will be authorised whatsoever no matter what, except for one day for weddings ( with proof!)

The penalty is £60 or £120.

Not very fair on any parents such as myself who booked a holiday for a week in October as we really CANNOT get away in half term this year.

I will not be paying unless this is legally enforcible!!

sooty I think this is exactly what would happen. Fines dont convert to percentage attendance. So we wouldn't hit our target. La would investigate, and they have got it in for him already. Ofsted swoop in, with their agenda of doing non academies no favours anyway. School goes in to a category. Head sacked. Governing body sacked. School then forced to join local academy chain and run by megalomaniac secondary head who is already in charge of six schools. Zero tolerance rules come in on everything.

And who do you think our parents would blame? Us, or the government who force our hand?

My head is having sleepless nights about it already, asd our parents will pay the fine and go anyway. Not a thing he can do. Our brilliant community school erl be under threat. So do think about it carefully before you lash out at management of school...chances are they are thinking about the future of the whole place.

BeQuicksie - I think, sadly, you have hit the nail on the head there.

Local independent school here is taking the tightened up regulations so seriously that any unauthorised absence will be penalised by something like £100 per day per child PLUS your child will be removed from the school roll and you will have to go to the bottom of the waiting list if there is one and therefore either lose your school place or have to reapply for your place, which may be refused due to your attendance record!!!

Must be lovely to know in advance that your young or future baby will have no S.N and may only be able to just about cope outdoors and away from home during off-peak, and only then for a few days.

"But how can you tell the two apart? Both sets of parents (if in fact they are separate sets, which is open to doubt) think they know better, both sets are undermining the school and creating additional work for teachers. How can you tell the two apart? I can't."

Come on. HTs must know from talking to their teachers which parents are taking the piss and which parents take their children's education seriously. They must know. There is always a pointed "Please do try and make this parent's evening as it means so much o the children when parents take an interest in their education." They don't write that for no-one's benefit.

DS's reading diary is always filled in by DH and I, all homework completed and handed in, if he needs to take equipment in for work, I send it. We go to each parent's evening and ask questions on what we can be doing at home with DS... It's fairly obvious that we care and take school seriously. It's not all or nothing if you decide to holiday in term time. You don't suddenly become a parent who doesn't care less. HTs are supposed to be intelligent folk. They should be able to use their judgement on this.

That was to CalamityJ and anyone else with a crystal ball btw.

I think a more balanced approach would be a maximum of 5 days authorised absence per child per year. This would still make attendance of over 95%, and those children truanting or with other attendance issues will still get picked up when their overall attendance falls below the threshold.

I still think it is the truancy and lateness (which has to be marked as half day absence) which is the problem, not a week off for holidays.

I agree with that, Audrina. 5 days would be a happy balance. Schools are still getting their 95% and parents can tack a weekend/inset day to this to get a holiday in if they need to.

It has to be the truancy that is the problem. It can't be holiday as that is authorised

Hotbots, I agree with you, even!

Although I agree with you too Audrina :)

It's nothing to do with how well you support your child's learning generally. Taking your children out for term time holidays puts the school and its status at risk. The government is responsible for that with its academies and privatisation agenda. The schools' and headteachers' hands are tied.

Every non academy school is one step away from being forced into academy status. Each non academy head's job is insecure.

And don't forget that academies don't generally have the interests of SN children at heart.

My (secondary) school also has an attendance target of 95 %. Year 8 reached 94.7 % for this year. HOY spent two hours in the head's office getting a bollocking for this on the last day of term.

We are not an academy and don't want to become one. Any little chink could force us down that route. Parents have been told that holiday will not be authorised but take it anyway and then either expect work to be set for the holidays or teachers to spend time in lessons/lunch/after school catching students up. We end up doing this as we can't let results drop or that'll be another way they can turn us into an academy.

There will always be parents that say fuck it I will pay the fine. That on top of other absence. So no we wont hit our targets. I have read it on this thread.

And schools are not in the business of judging and discriminating against parents -.oh you can have a week off mrs, you fill in your reading diary... But you can't, your dinner money was late last week etc. that way lies madness.

this is just more divide and conquer.

Yes, Spikey - that's how things are now. I suspect those parents stridently repeating their family's rights to affordable holidays simply haven't considered, or are unaware of the wider implications.

I do feel desperately sad for families with SN children affected by the ruling - I think they should be disapplied from the figures. It isn't going to happen though.

No but they could say you can have a week off mrs cos your child's attendance was over 95%in the last academic year

It's the good attendance rate that compensates for the poor attenders. So if everyone was allowed 5 days it would only take one person to push the attendance under 95% by taking more days.

The more people that have 100% attendance, the more chance the school has of staying within the 'safe' 95%

Five days is perfectly reasonable. For those whose DC can cope with and are medically able to travel abroad, it's nine days with the weekends.

I've posted it before but in the last school I taught at there were, in my class of twenty three, only ever about twelve in at any one time. In one term I had a mother fallen foul of dealers from the estate and terrified to leave the house. Child in ill-fitting shit-stained clothes. Child raped and given a horrible disease by Grandmother's new BF. Two girls battered to the point of needing surgery by older pupils with M.H problems who were, "not old enough to be dangerous". Lovely little chap who lived with Dad who partied all weekend with GF in the city and forgot to feed him, absent every single Monday. Four year olds walking to school and crossing a major road on their own. Seven year old girls telling boys to lick their pussies. Children actually wanting to be taken into care and being jealous of those who disappeared.

And we're the bad parents.

Oh God Audrina :( :( :(

It isn't about parenting. It is about finding another stick to beat non-academy schools with.

You can see why I was there for just one term. I wanted to take them all home with me every night.

Most of the staff were from overseas and did moonlight flits before their contract ended out of sheer horror.

I will tell you what it is is, it is incorrect prioritising. It's fighting a fire that doesn't exist instead of tackling the one that does. Its making the right noises to make it seem like you are doing something about spiralling low standards of academic attainment (when perhaps, to be fair, you can't think of any other solution to the problem).

But why should it be about attendance "targets". Surely it should be about how the child is progressing. Yes attendance matters but not to the extent that missing one week out, every two or three years will effect it.

I think the message is good but in practice there are many very good reasons to have a "holiday" in term time. The world has moved on from the idea that an academic education alone will see you right. Self confidence and a knowledge of the world are important too both of which can be accessed outside of the classroom.

If everyone hit 95 they would raise it, it's all going to academy, one way or the other.

I'm on my phone and have to flip the thread. Every time I read the poor OP's initial "not interested in having a debate about the rights and wrongs" I feel sorrier and sorrier for her

IME /IMO class sizes are what make a difference and only that. IT's the only thing I personally would ask for as a teacher. Holidays mean nothing.