OMG. Are these 'penalty notices' for taking children out of school in term time legally enforceable?

[Utterlyastoundedmum]

Not interested in having a debate about whether it is 'right' to take a child out of schol, in term time for holidays etc. just wanting to know whether they can be enforced from a legal perspective.

I have just read the latest school newsletter and am to be honest, very annoyed indeed to find that as of September the school are changing its policy on authorising absences. Until now it's always been on a case by case basis but now they are saying no absence will be authorised whatsoever no matter what, except for one day for weddings ( with proof!)

The penalty is £60 or £120.

Not very fair on any parents such as myself who booked a holiday for a week in October as we really CANNOT get away in half term this year.

I will not be paying unless this is legally enforcible!!

Please excuse this very stereotypical post, but I really dont think it is the families putting in requests for annual holidays during term time whose children are (generally speaking) falling below attainment targets, neither do I think that the families asking for leave are the ones that Audrina was teaching...

Gove does not care about 'state' education, other than to abolish it completely by the movement to free schools and academies. He does not care about your child's education, be it in school or on holiday. He is going all out to convert all schools, and is being aided and abetted by Ofsted.

Every single non-academy school in my LA has been inspected, we were done only 18 months after our previous inspection, in which we were rated good. Luckily our Head and Deputy had enough data to argue us into good again. The fabulous, previously outstanding school on the other side of town has become 'requires improvement' and the Head is on his way out. All in the space of 15 months.

The thing I'm always curious about with respect to term time holidays is how people then have the annual leave to cover the actual holidays. There are 13 weeks which needing covering. statutory annual leave is 28 day, if you use 10 of those during term time then surely you will need to pay for extra childcare in the holidays, granted this may not be as much as the difference between term time and school holiday prices but still.

I think this ruling is INCREDIBLY one sided! I wonder how the teachers in my kids school would mind being fined for going on strike! Government and/or schools don't seem to mind our kids missing out on school then!!!!!!

There is no right of appeal to the £60 penalty.

Relies on the LEA deciding on whether to pursue it through the courts. How can you not have right to appeal?

You do realise, Joanne, that we lose a days pay when we strike? Considerably more than £60.

This isn't a teachers vs. parents thing. This is a Gove vs. anyone who cares about state education thing.

katz - the only people I know who take termtime holidays are those with a SAHP.

Gove can fuck right off with this one.

I and parents like me are not responsible for failing schools and I won't be blackmailed into believing that I am just because I feel that as a hard-working family, we deserve (yes, deserve!) some time together away from the stresses of home. A week's holiday won't make my child or his school fail but cutting TAs and budgets sure as hell will do. Nice how his crap policy is also pitting parents against one another! I won't be held responsible for the performance of my child's school because if that is what they are judging on, they need to re-assess their fucking priorities.

I think this has hit lots of parents.

I was only aware of it when booked 1 day off for lego land which is hell in holidays/weekends. we had 1 failed attempt t go n the last inset day of this year and m4 was shut arrived 1 pm when park shut at 5 abd was heaving and very expensive to get in.

It was then reception told me 10 days going.

in the 3 years dd1 been going school taken 1-2 days a year .
we havent been abroad since pre kids.
we can barly afford a uk holiday which works out pricey.

when we do have some money I intend to go abroad and would pay the the fine.

dds retail manager an he cant take xmas or easter that,s 5 weeks .
old rules used to be no authorised in term 1 as settling in and month ofsted r lea montor attendance or term 5 sats which is fair enough as leaves other 4 terms.

If independent schools do less than 38 weeks and their pupils d well how can taking 1 week ff damage a whole year of academic education.?

dd has been ill a lot was worried shes had 7 days genuine sickness and asked doctor for sick note and they sad they don't do sick notes for kids that if they can be arsed to see you.

I looked into and proposed flexi schooling last year with old school.
they said no theres absence code b which means educated off site.

Also head sent letters to late people me:(hard with 2toddlers, very busy dangerous rds and selfsh arse parents and some got letters over absence i had to go speak to him in his offce felt like naughty school girl.

Re reception they dont legally have to be in school until term after 5th birthday so do reception parents have a get out clause?

Someone should start an extra nursery group same location as private nursery and instead of preschool room have reception light where parents can choose spend as little or as long as they lke 1-5days, still use free 15 hours and take whatever blooming holiday they like whilst teaching them what they do in reception be fab idea working parents.

old school teacher had loads of sickness which far more disruptive to class. surly 1-2less that week teach easier.

some subjects should be bullet point list not whole lesson plan easy enough for maths and english. harder for science I guess.

The last 2weeks now dd1 done not a lot mostly free play, trips and videos.

Its just mad my kids hardly see dad much as retail means weekends bank hols. family times important we already work longest hours europe and why wont they stop holiday companies ripping us off maybe we should have aholiday comparsion site term tme non term time and send lea that as evidence.

The money box of pennies made me chuckle.

All this makes home ed look more attractive.

To be fair spikey, I didn't realise you lost a days pay. But it grinds my bones when teachers/firemen/police etc go on strike over pensions etc. you knew the deal when you took the job. If you didn't like the terms of employment then don't take the job!!

Dp and I work in s supermarket. You try getting holiday in the school holiday when 75% of the other employees are doing the same! Sometimes it's impossible.

We can't change our employers right to refuse holiday, but you can choose not to go on strike! Rant over :) x

some subjects should be bullet point list not whole lesson plan easy enough for maths and english

How much lesson planning have you ever done?

I and parents like me are not responsible for failing schools and I won't be blackmailed into believing that I am just because I feel that as a hard-working family, we deserve (yes, deserve!) some time together away from the stresses of home. A week's holiday won't make my child or his school fail but cutting TAs and budgets sure as hell will do. Nice how his crap policy is also pitting parents against one another! I won't be held responsible for the performance of my child's school because if that is what they are judging on, they need to re-assess their fucking priorities

The fact is that every parent who takes a child out for a term time holiday contributes to the possibility of failing school status, because Gove and Ofsted have created that situation in order to advance the academy agenda. It's not blackmail: it's a fact.

To be fair spikey, I didn't realise you lost a days pay. But it grinds my bones when teachers/firemen/police etc go on strike over pensions etc. you knew the deal when you took the job. If you didn't like the terms of employment then don't take the job!!

The strike was because the terms and conditions have changed!

To be fair spikey, I didn't realise you lost a days pay. But it grinds my bones when teachers/firemen/police etc go on strike over pensions etc. you knew the deal when you took the job. If you didn't like the terms of employment then don't take the job!!

You could say that about having children too. Surely you knew when you decided to have children that they would have to go to school and that might limit your family holiday time? If you want to go on holidays whenever you want, then don't have children, or homeschool them.

The legislation to meant to reduce unauthorised truancy. Previously 10 days' holidays were mainly authorised, so I understand, so didn't count as unauthorised and didn't figure in the rates.

Removing the schools' option to authorise holiday will not prevent all parents taking children on holidays during term time, as we've seen on this thread. So in fact the unauthorised absence rate will go up.

In the meantime, the true 'truant' children, the real unauthorised absentees, will remain hanging around on street corners, missed and neglected by the system, their educational and life chances reducing every day. What does this do to help them? Support (or punish, even, if necessary) the parents who can't or won't get their children into school. Provide schools that can actually help children in difficult circumstances?

On the other hand, does term-time holiday affect children's education and put undue burden on teachers? If there is an evidence base, or failing that, a reasoned argument, put it to us. Try 'consulting' before the decision is taken for once, rather than afterwards when there is every absolutely no chance of a political U-turn.

If there is a good reason to avoid term-time holidays, can the travel industry, teachers, and parents try to sort out some sort of solution? (School holiday prices are going to reduce obviously, that's only fair increase beyond all reason as a result of this latest move.)

Just more headline-grabbing empty-headed politics, as far as I can see, bashing the poor squeezed middle again for cheap political points, ignoring the already neglected and not affecting the top in private schooling (okay, not just the very upper class goes there, but allow me a little generalisation, there aren't too many bankers' kids at my DD's school).

Time for a rebellion on the grounds of common sense, I say. Make policies on logical, compassionate grounds, not the current 'whose mad hobby horse hasn't had a go yet' nonsense. (Don't get me started on the blinking NHS reform....)

I reckon this could backfire on the government. If we are not allowed to exercise our parental wisdom and decide for ourselves what is best for our children because the govt claim the children are missing education - well then we as parents can start questioning some of the things schools do.
So one of my children (10 year old) spent the last week of term watching constant videos at school. I would have the right to argue that this is not in his best interests or doing anything for his education. School trips - missing out on education.
There is so much wasted time at schools it is ridiculous. To claim a week away is detrimental is ridiculous.

I am so glad that we have two years left and then dd may stay on but probably change to go to college at 16.

I feel sorry for teachers who have to administer this awful system, parents for having their rights taken away (this government spoke about family rights and then squash them at every policy they make concerning children it seems)

I agree with mini

I think a lot of people are deliberately missing the point on this in order to justify taking their kids out of school.

It ISN'T up to the school. Their hands are tied. The Ofsted criteria applies to every non-academy state school across England. Attendance levels are looked at as a general number. Ofsted and the LEA DO NOT distinguish between truanters who hang around on street corners and those whose parents take them on a naice family holiday. It doesn't matter if the head knows that the child is generally a high attainer and otherwise has a flawless attendance record. Your absence will contribute to the overall attendance percentage.

If you have an issue with this, take it up with Gove and the Conservative government, not your local school which has absolutely no power to change it at all, and where teachers and the head are probably worried about the impact this is going to have a) on their relationship with parents and b) on their Ofsted rating, and therefore ultimately their jobs.

My daughter attends a very successful, much sought after and selective academy( changed to academy since she started) one of the conditions for a place is that you will not take holidays in term time and doing so unless in exceptional circumstances would result in losing your place at the school ( yes children have been asked to leave). That condition which as a parent you had to agree to was in place 8 years ago when my eldest started.

I accepted the conditions were part of the school rules and I like everyone else has a choice, if you don't want to accept the conditions don't send your child.

"Your absence will contribute to the overall attendance percentage."

Well, then they need to continue in the way it is now and allow an allotted amount of authorised days off, then it WON'T affect absence.

Minimalist has it. The truants will still truant. The cba parents will still be cba. The only people that this will penalise is the responsible parents. And it will make a lot of responsible parents feel resentful and uncaring in attitude towards the school and LEA. It is so short-sighted and silly.

Marmalade, as I and other posters have repeatedly stated, it is not up to the schools. Take it up with Gove.

"I accepted the conditions were part of the school rules and I like everyone else has a choice, if you don't want to accept the conditions don't send your child."

They weren't the conditions when I sent my child to school though, were they?

Oh yeah, I can just imagine Gove getting an irate email from a mother in the West Midlands and him thinking "You know what? I've misjudged this..."

Errr - he's an elected official. He has to at least respond to any correspondence.

Write to Mr Gove with your concerns and ask him to justify why your school is no longer allowed to let parents take their children out of school in term time.

Please stop bashing your school. I'm sure most heads would rather be able to allow children to take reasonable absences so that they wouldn't contribute to the overall attendance figures.

But why do children need to go on holiday in term time? They won't be traumatised not having a holiday. People who can't have time at certain times of the year or have people who work for them that want the holidays will have to compromise.

It isn't right to expect teachers to help absent children catch up. And if people say the last 2 weeks of the term are a waste of time and people should be allowed to take those off those weeks will be deemed high season too....... Where will you draw the line?

Of course he has to respond. Will it make him change his mind on policy? No, of course not. I signed the online petition when this first came about. When the online petitions reach so many signatures, they HAVE to discuss it in parliament. I will link to it.

Jeez, can people stop with the "children won't be traumatised if they don't have a holiday" wankery please? No-one is claiming that they WILL be, are they?! It is ME that will be traumatised if I don't have a holiday, not DS!