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AIBU?

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Original poster

OMG. Are these 'penalty notices' for taking children out of school in term time legally enforceable?

767 replies

Utterlyastoundedmum · 22/07/2013 14:53

Not interested in having a debate about whether it is 'right' to take a child out of schol, in term time for holidays etc. just wanting to know whether they can be enforced from a legal perspective.

I have just read the latest school newsletter and am to be honest, very annoyed indeed to find that as of September the school are changing its policy on authorising absences. Until now it's always been on a case by case basis but now they are saying no absence will be authorised whatsoever no matter what, except for one day for weddings ( with proof!)

The penalty is £60 or £120.

Not very fair on any parents such as myself who booked a holiday for a week in October as we really CANNOT get away in half term this year.

I will not be paying unless this is legally enforcible!!

OP posts:
ohforfoxsake · 22/07/2013 22:40

So it's ok for holiday companies to charge inflated rates as they have us over a barrel? Get over it, don't go away together, it's our fault for having children. Bollocks.

NewNameForNewTerm · 22/07/2013 22:42

start ?

5madthings · 22/07/2013 22:43

7grand on a holiday? We pay £400 for a self catering cottage and then patrol/days out costs! Oh to spend seven grand on a holiday...

revealall · 22/07/2013 22:44

saintly - so do I

MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 22:45

Holiday companies can charge whatever they like as the demand is there, sadly. There will never be any talk of them being regulated so that they aren't shafting us up the arses as this is how business works. It sucks.

So the sensible action has to come from the LEA. 7 or 10 days discretionary leave if attendance has been over a certain percentage. Therefore absence is authorised and won't affect attendance figures. I can't help but think that they are shagging themselves with this one. Everyone I know has said they will just pay the fine and have done with it.

StarlightMcKenzie · 22/07/2013 22:46

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Have a child about to go into reception and another 3 years behind her. I also have an older child with SN who attends a school that has some holidays at different times to the state mainstream school that my dd will go to.

What do people think of deregistering the kids and then, after the holiday, re-registering them. It is an oversubscribed school and we'd loose our place for a bit, but we live on the doorstep so would be first on the waiting list and it is a huge school.

I'd be happy to homeschool in between. Holidays are extremely important to us and imo essential for the development of our children. It is vital though that we go to places when they are less crowded due to ds' autism.

ThePrinceofCambridge · 22/07/2013 22:46

As ever no use moaning on here.

write to MP's complain, ask what they are going to do about feckless parents and how responsible parents whose DC;s do love to learn are going to be punished for one bloody holiday.

I also feel very much my childs teacher. I have 100% been behind her as she learns.

Her reading came on enormously when we were away.

I have no faith in her school to teach her without my and DH back up.

So, she is not going into a black void when away, she is still being brought along by us.

StarlightMcKenzie · 22/07/2013 22:49

'I have no faith in her school to teach her without my and DH back up.

So, she is not going into a black void when away, she is still being brought along by us.'

This ^

PugStaffyCross · 22/07/2013 22:53

it is going to cause mass uproar and what do they expect? I took my kids up north last year in february for my grandmothers 90th birthday party. its a 6.5 hour drive up there so cant do it one day. the HT said no if I took them it would be unauthorised which affects thier attendance figures. They had 3 days off and I had a shitty letter, my kids are in exam years now so wont be taking them out as important time. I alays try and support school but thinking about it - there are exceptions when they can sod off.

Trigglesx · 22/07/2013 22:53

Starlight We've already told DS1's SS (and DS2's MS school) that if we manage to take them on a couple days holiday somewhere, it will have to be during term time, as DS1 cannot cope with crowds. If we went during the busiest times at most places, he wouldn't be able to either leave the room or enjoy himself at all. Hopefully as they understand his SNs, it won't be a huge issue. I will happily pay a fine if it means he is able to enjoy a brief holiday like other children can.

MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 22:57

Well yes, Pug.

They are targeting the wrong families, here. The families that request permission for a week's leave are being honest and seeking approval for a bit of leave, which was only ever granted if the child's attendance was above 92% anyway. But this is going to make arseholes of us all. Those of us who have complied with the rules and shown support to the school will be less reluctant to do so now, I fear.

MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 22:58

I might even do my own bake sale at the gates to fund the fine. Grin

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme · 22/07/2013 23:00

So what happens if you've already booked the holiday before you realised about the new rules? Is it down to the head teachers discretion or will you just get fined anyway?

Wuldric · 22/07/2013 23:00

Going against the prevailing trend here - but I think this is a brilliant idea and long overdue.

As for those who hope it will be challenged under EU law, that is quite the most ridiculous thing I have heard for a long time. Good luck with that! Bringing a touch of realism to the thread - a challenge under EU law (which would fail, btw) would come an awful lot more expensive than paying the fines for disrupting the school and getting the teachers to do extra work to help your DCs catch up.

AudrinaAdare · 22/07/2013 23:00

I still think its covered by the DDA, Starlight. Lack of crowds and queues off-peak make getting around accessible for your DS.

Onesleeptillwembley · 22/07/2013 23:01

You shouldn't be fined for that, triggles, but scarily, how many people would catch wind of it and use it as an excuse if they thought they could get away with it. If your ds has issues with things like that I can see(although sorry if I'm wrong) that getting away in a safe quieter environment could maybe help him slowly overcome fears, and so be very beneficial in many ways.

MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 23:01

Ilovemydog, I think that they may honour it. I would check and then if they won't, appeal against it.

saintlyjimjams · 22/07/2013 23:04

revealall - you don't know how it will be treated do you? I keep hearing the extremes from 'don't worry it's recorded differently, to no it isn't it won't be allowed'. Ds2's school were very positive about the benefits so I hope they're not going to have their hand force by the LEA

Tilly333 · 22/07/2013 23:05

well last day of school for DD tomorrow...and its a day of rounders .. a good all round sporting activity ... minus lunchtime of an hour....and they get to go home early...so last day of term equates to 4 hours of 'education' - what will the rest of the teachers who do not teach sports on the last day be doing if they are not teaching their normal allocated lessons?

Whippetwarmer · 22/07/2013 23:06

I was talking about this with a friend who was HE and has very strong views about parents' rights to keep their child out of school if they so wish.

Her opinion was that if you word how you tell them you will be keeping your child out of school correctly, then you should be ok.

E.g rather than say "dc will not be in school because we are going on holiday," say "dc will not be in school because I will be educating them myself between these dates". And while you are away get the dc to do a scrap book about their trip, draw pictures and keep a diary about places they have visited etc. the law states that your child must be in education, not in school, so as long as you can prove that they were doing something educational there's bugger all they can do about it.

Could be completely wrong but worth a try maybe?

AudrinaAdare · 22/07/2013 23:08

Onesleep, what a horrible thought! I can see that it might catch on though sadly.

As I pointed out earlier, every major tourist attraction worldwide including evil Disney understands these issues and has accessibility policies for people with ASD. Why should schools be an exception?

Actually I have answered my own question there. Chessington et al realise how awful and traumatic it is for their neurotypical guests to have to queue with people who cannot do this, so their motives are probably profit-driven.

MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 23:08

"E.g rather than say "dc will not be in school because we are going on holiday," say "dc will not be in school because I will be educating them myself between these dates". And while you are away get the dc to do a scrap book about their trip, draw pictures and keep a diary about places they have visited etc. the law states that your child must be in education, not in school, so as long as you can prove that they were doing something educational there's bugger all they can do about it."

Would they force you to deregister your DC, though? Good idea, if not.

PrettyKitty1986 · 22/07/2013 23:09

What exactly do you expect schools to do when poor attendance alone can tip a school into special measures?

Purely by holidays? My ds1 has had a bit over a week off this year...his attendance was 95%. I thought that was good...maybe only by my standards, but then i'm the type of slack parent that takes him out of school of course.

NewNameForNewTerm · 22/07/2013 23:14

How I understand it if you worded a letter like that it would be de-registering your child. If it's an under-subscribed school it won't be a problem. If it is like my school you could write that letter on a Friday morning and your place will be refilled by Monday morning. Then you've lost it and will need to HE until another space comes up.
This thread brings to mind a conversation we were having at school about educating children in their rights and responsibilities We are good at the first, but not so hot on the second and we are reflecting on our PSHEe curriculum for the new school year to rectify this.

ninja · 22/07/2013 23:15

Not sure if this has been covered here - but if stbexH and I are separated and he takes the kids away (which he's going to do to despite me telling him about the legislation - apparantly the school HAVE to give you 14 days off Hmm) -

would I get fined as well?