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AIBU?

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Original poster

OMG. Are these 'penalty notices' for taking children out of school in term time legally enforceable?

767 replies

Utterlyastoundedmum · 22/07/2013 14:53

Not interested in having a debate about whether it is 'right' to take a child out of schol, in term time for holidays etc. just wanting to know whether they can be enforced from a legal perspective.

I have just read the latest school newsletter and am to be honest, very annoyed indeed to find that as of September the school are changing its policy on authorising absences. Until now it's always been on a case by case basis but now they are saying no absence will be authorised whatsoever no matter what, except for one day for weddings ( with proof!)

The penalty is £60 or £120.

Not very fair on any parents such as myself who booked a holiday for a week in October as we really CANNOT get away in half term this year.

I will not be paying unless this is legally enforcible!!

OP posts:
foxy6 · 22/07/2013 22:20

for all children any new experience, place visited is education so therefore a holiday somewhere New doing something new is educational. education is not just maths and English learnt in a classroom.

MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 22:21

Your opinion, Tarty. I think that most people are talking sense. Just a few joyless sticklers on here clutching at their pearls, as usual. :)

Dahlen · 22/07/2013 22:22

I think teachers should be allowed term-time holidays. Other public servants are allowed to take holidays when they want to provided it doesn't clash with essential services and is fair to their colleagues. I certainly wouldn't object to my DC's teachers being away for a week and their lessons covered by another teacher. If the children fall apart completely after one week, something else is going on.

I also think - given the emphasis schools place on parent-school communication, that not allowing teachers time off to deal with their own DC's school sends a very hypocritical message.

Still can't see why rough lesson plans can't be handed over though. I'm not on about a point-by-point breakdown of every hour in the classroom, but a summarised breakdown of the topics and learning objections for that week is not too much to ask IMO. I'd expect a good teacher to have those as standard. Every other institution of learning and training does.

PugStaffyCross · 22/07/2013 22:23

plenty of time in the holidays for taking them away. its usually cos its cheaper people want to take them term time.

giddywithglee couldnt agree more to your comment, teachers cant take holidays during school time so why should school allow kids too?

They are right to fine people for taking kids away from education.. education is a privilage that many don't get the opportunity to do. If its a family emergency thats different but for a jolly over to spain then no.

MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 22:24

"plenty of time in the holidays for taking them away. its usually cos its cheaper people want to take them term time. "

No flies on you, Pug!

Onesleeptillwembley · 22/07/2013 22:25

I agree with the fines BUT I read upthread that religious holidays will be treated differently. That's wrong, and IMO it's discriminatory and will most definitely be divisive. How can non proven beliefs be more important than a holiday?

ThePrinceofCambridge · 22/07/2013 22:25

Pug

At the moment teachers earn a great deal more than the parents of the children they teach.

Private school children of course get much longer holidays so the richer parents can enjoy the cheaper holiday times, along with their teachers.

ThePrinceofCambridge · 22/07/2013 22:26

We will start our own religion, the worship of holidays and seeing the world.

NewNameForNewTerm · 22/07/2013 22:27

Of course my school allows it. One or two only, in the last week of term and they need some curriculum link. 6 & 7 year olds are shattered and grumpy at the best of times by this time of the school year. Add to that the weather and it is a complete waste of time trying to teach them. A couple of usual lessons I taught last week had children practically in tears as they couldn't think straight. I know they could do the maths (easily) but they were just too tired, hot, etc.
Yes I agree it's hard for parents wanting to take the last few days off this week. I know quite a few children are "ill" after the weekend.
Marmalade - I'm not moaning about my lack of holiday I'm making a point that if your children are entitled to holidays, so are mine. I've worked department store retail before I got into teaching and its tough around Christmas and New Year.

Onesleeptillwembley · 22/07/2013 22:27

Ok, I'm god, though. Send me 10% of your gin allowance and you'll be Saved!!!

foxy6 · 22/07/2013 22:28

pug education is not a privilege in the UK everyone gets educated regardless.

Abitlikechicken · 22/07/2013 22:29

PrettyKitty a lot of the parents at our school hold your view. I manage attendance and have had upwards of 50 holiday applications in the last six weeks. What exactly do you expect schools to do when poor attendance alone can tip a school into special measures? Yours is a selfish and self-righteous view. Schools are very much on to parents who lie to cover their holidays too and know the signs to look for, any doubt and no medical evidence and we don't authorise.

dippingbackin · 22/07/2013 22:29

I don't know any teachers that show films in the last week. We would have serious questions to answer from the SLT if we did.

PugStaffyCross · 22/07/2013 22:30

Some posters on here really are talking a load of rubbish.... find me a child who wants to do school work on holiday and the parent who is going to force them to? It amazing how many peoples kids are top of the class and can afford to miss school. If people can afford to spend 7K on a holiday then educate your kids privately and stop complaining about a 60 quid fine

MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 22:32

"What exactly do you expect schools to do when poor attendance alone can tip a school into special measures?"

Well then the LEAs need to use their little noggins and carry on allowing HTs to award discretionary authorised absence. People WILL get around it. People WILL pay the fine. It will do not much to deter parents from going on holiday.

Medical evidence? What medical evidence do you require? Doctors don't certificate for children unless it is an extended illness.

Whothefuckfarted · 22/07/2013 22:32

Just tell em the kids have a nasty bug. have a great holiday :)

PugStaffyCross · 22/07/2013 22:33

foxy6 in the UK yes of course but in some countries no. In the UK we are lucky to have a good uducation system that is now trying to make sure kids attend as there are some parents who dont care. I dont mean the ones who go on holiday I mean the ones who just dont send them.

MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 22:34

"If people can afford to spend 7K on a holiday then educate your kids privately and stop complaining about a 60 quid fine"

Seven grand?! My last three holidays abroad have cost us £1000, there or there abouts. We aren't Richard fucking Branson, you know?

PugStaffyCross · 22/07/2013 22:36

MarmaladeTwatkins thats the reason we used to take ours in the school time! so much cheaper. Schools are trying to improve attendance so maybe parents should support this?

MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 22:36

" I dont mean the ones who go on holiday I mean the ones who just dont send them."

Then penalise them! Not us responsible parents who send our children in when they are supposed to be there but might like an authorised week away.

There is a mother at DS's school who doesn't send her son in for odd days, a few times a term. Because she can't get up in time. I see her shopping with him in town! WTF?! That's what needs to be cracked down on!

saintlyjimjams · 22/07/2013 22:36

We've just been sent a letter for the LEA as well.

I know I've asked this on here before (and elsewhere) but I keep getting contradictory advice. If children are performing (so need headteacher's permission for the licence) is that okay? When I spoke to ds2's new school (from Sept) about some (very limited) time he might have to miss for performing next school year they said it was fine & just to let them know as soon as I had the dates. But our LEA seems to have issued the no holidays guidance since then. In his case I think performing in a west end tour is educational tbh

AudrinaAdare · 22/07/2013 22:37

I've posted about our three days on the Isle of Wight. DD had been learning about coastal erosion in Geography and actually got to see where it had happened. Osborne House. Roman villa. Fossils. Also, strangely a Creationist community Grin

Access to education is indeed a "privilage", but it doesn't necessarily have to take place in school if parents have a modicum of intelligence.

foxy6 · 22/07/2013 22:38

well that's kind of me then my 14 year old doesn't go to school but my 9 and 6 year olds do. that doesn't mean he doesn't get an education he has probably learned more over the year he has been out of school that he did the whole tome he was in comp.

and as for if you can afford 7 k on a hop you can afford the fine, I think the point people we trying to make is that they can't afford 7 k for a holiday during school hols. my budget for holidays this year is 200 for 7 of us we are camping Grin

PugStaffyCross · 22/07/2013 22:40

MarmaladeTwatkins lol if you read through the thread you will see that some people spend 4k upward on a holiday, unless they are bullshitting to make the rest of us paupers jealous. 800 quid for a week is about my limit, I could think of a lot better things to do with 4k than a holiday

MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 22:40

"MarmaladeTwatkins thats the reason we used to take ours in the school time! so much cheaper. Schools are trying to improve attendance so maybe parents should support this?"

Tough shit.

If they (LEAs) are going to be so draconian about it and dictate when we can use our annual leave then I could not give a shit about their attendance rates. Doesn't affect me. Perhaps if they went about it sensibly (like the current system!) I would care more and continue abiding by the rules. However, I won't be dictated to on when I may take my child on holiday, when I may book my annual leave, when DH may book his annual leave and how my finances should be worked to cover this wanky rule change. If the LEAs start acting like arses, parents will start acting like arses.