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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

OMG. Are these 'penalty notices' for taking children out of school in term time legally enforceable?

767 replies

Utterlyastoundedmum · 22/07/2013 14:53

Not interested in having a debate about whether it is 'right' to take a child out of schol, in term time for holidays etc. just wanting to know whether they can be enforced from a legal perspective.

I have just read the latest school newsletter and am to be honest, very annoyed indeed to find that as of September the school are changing its policy on authorising absences. Until now it's always been on a case by case basis but now they are saying no absence will be authorised whatsoever no matter what, except for one day for weddings ( with proof!)

The penalty is £60 or £120.

Not very fair on any parents such as myself who booked a holiday for a week in October as we really CANNOT get away in half term this year.

I will not be paying unless this is legally enforcible!!

OP posts:
MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 21:12

I actually agree with that, mister. I wouldn't dream of taking DS out if he was in SATS year. As it is, he is Year 1 going into 2. I don't think that a week out is going to damage his chances of becoming a Lego designer (his dream job)

FieryChipotle · 22/07/2013 21:14

I'm a teacher (as is DH) and we are trying to dream up ways we could possibly take our DCs away while its cheap. Holidays out of term time are far too expensive and frankly, if I thought I could get away with it, I would feign illness for my children to get a nice holiday. I have absolute sympathy with parents over the term time holiday fines. Our term doesn't end until Wednesday and there has been little teaching since the week before last, what is the point in fining parents so kids can miss three days of film-watching?!

greeneyed · 22/07/2013 21:14

Oh balls DS hasn't even started school yet and will be taking 6 days out next year for a holiday - It's to stay with Family and they have paid for our flights, So I will be fined, he will be four ffs, how much will he miss?

NeverKnowinglyUnderstood · 22/07/2013 21:15

Our head teacher has been told he is no longer allowed to authorize any absences and he HAS to go with planned certificates for 100% attendance.

Doctors, dentists, illness means you don't get 100% there are no exceptions.

He isn't happy about it at all.

MoominMammasHandbag · 22/07/2013 21:15

I live on the border of two LEAs. Younger kids go to primary in one LEA, teens go to high school in another. They regularly have different holiday weeks at February, May and October half terms and only a few days' overlap at Easter, only four or five weeks overlap in the summer too.
So, apart from a few weeks in the summer, if we want to do any kind of family time away, and that includes visiting my parents who live 250 miles away, we need to take someone out of school.
Obviously we normally choose to take them out of primary, but this new rule is a complete pain, not least for teachers at our primary with kids at school in the other LEA who have different holidays.

MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 21:17

"But I always astonished at how most people find it OK to take their dcs out of school for a hols."

You just have different priorities to other parents. No need to be "astonished".

And our local secondary school DO take out DCs for a week's skiing! And DS will NOT be going! £600 for a week?! Do me a favour.

ohforfoxsake · 22/07/2013 21:31

What happens when the schools set their own holiday? Children at different schools, with different holidays?

HorryIsUpduffed · 22/07/2013 21:33

I don't think it applies to 4yos because they aren't in compulsory education. I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong.

MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 21:34

No, you are right Horry.

greeneyed · 22/07/2013 21:39

Thanks Horry that's good to hear!

YoureAllABunchOfBastards · 22/07/2013 21:42

It's Ok - just don't pay, don't turn up at court and then when you finally have to say you can't afford it. £60 fine reduced to £15 in these circumstances for a parent whose daughter was in school less than 70%!of the time.

AudrinaAdare · 22/07/2013 21:43

Off-peak holidays aren't just cheaper, or even more affordable. they make being out and about accessible for DS who has autism. We spend all day during the six weeks avoiding the crowds at the park and pool and even the shops. Last year (three days on the IoW) was the first time in six years he felt safe and calm enough to tentatively play on a beach FGS. Tourist attractions worldwide now recognise this problem. Even bloody Disney!

DD has a medical condition which means that she is unable travel abroad at all due to having to transport live cells through passport control, so no skiing or French exchange for her.

I wonder if the disability discrimination act and the requirement to make reasonable adjustments to ensure equality of opportunity would cover this? That is an actual law and surely not subject to the HT's discretion?

I am going to saving my pound coins. I'd like to see them get any money from XH though, I've been trying for thirteen years, or would my DH have to cover it?

MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 21:52

Audrina, that's tough going :( Flowers

TartyMcTart · 22/07/2013 21:56

FFS, you have kids then the sacrifice is that you holiday during the school holidays. Yes, it's more expensive but hey, that's life. Get over it.

motownmover · 22/07/2013 21:58

Audrina I really hope the school is able to apply common sense make an exception.

MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 22:03

Luckily Tarty, most of us couldn't give a tiny tit what you think. :)

Tilly333 · 22/07/2013 22:04

Holiday was booked for last day before half term in October, last October. Not changing it.
I shall find out what the other kids did on the last day and then send in a counter claim (knowing the answer will be watching films and not educational in the slightest)
DD has been watching films for the last week (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire today!) so I know the form of the school. Makes my bloody blood boil.

AudrinaAdare · 22/07/2013 22:07

Thank you Smile

I put all this in an email recently after our request for next September was turned down flat. Along with the educational opportunities for DD (I'm a former teacher) It was granted eventually but only on the grounds that DD's previous school had already given permission early in the year. No mention of any of other issues so I am loathe to even ask them next year.

DS' special school was fine with it.

I wouldn't even mind but we don't want to go to the IoW especially but last year was the only short U.K break we have never had to abandon half-way through due to DS' meltdowns. I think because it was so quiet and calm. Stayed in a farmhouse, animals wandering around etc it was amazing - he even told us on the last day that our house / car / the ferry were all broken so we couldn't leave Grin

Tilly333 · 22/07/2013 22:07

Fiery Chipotle - just a question - but how do teachers get away with not teaching and letting the kids watch films?...I just don't get it

MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 22:08

DS has been doing a mixture of film-watching and free play since last Monday! His reading diary hasn't been entried by his TA for three weeks! They're on a wind-down, which is fine, but don't bollocks me that every second they spend in school is spent doing something essential to their future. Unless DS wants to do a degree in Cloudy With A Chance of Meatballs, as he has watched it five times this year Hmm

NewNameForNewTerm · 22/07/2013 22:08

I'm a teacher and my thoughts are that parents can make that choice - term time holidays and fine or costlier holidays out of term time. I'm completely happy with that level of parental choice. Holidays can be great at broadening the mind and do have an "educational" element, but that doesn't negate that children are missing a chunk of teaching in an area that isn't covered by experiencing another culture.

While I have no complaints about parents wanting termtime holidays I will not provide work for your child to do when they are away (if the work is that important to you keep them in school) and I will not spend my lunchtimes helping them catch up.

One poster said they would have the teacher's lesson plans - sorry, no chance. My plans are for me. I plan Monday and Tuesday over the weekend, then the rest of the week day-by-day as I assess what the children need. Often I don't even stick to the topic originally planned; what's the point of a week on money when the children pick up the planned skills in two days? I'll go back to place value or Venn diagrams that they are still finding tricky. My plans are working documents in my on short hand that will make no sense to someone outside myself and maybe the TA. They also have notes about children on them which is confidential. So, sorry I'm not writing them up neatly and sanitising the confidential stuff for parents. I'm not saying parents can't teach the primary curriculum, but I am saying they will not know what to teach to fill what their child is missing and at which level and with which focus.

Oh, and if the "we can't afford a holiday unless..." train of thought, what about teachers taking term time holidays? I've not been able to afford a holiday since I had children, so where does that leave me? I work at least double my contracted hours already, so surely a week off in June could be arranged?

NewNameForNewTerm · 22/07/2013 22:12

PS - I know all these videos are frustrating, but not all schools do them. I do one in the last week of term and it is linked to our summer term topic.
But at least it is everyone chilling in one week of term when all the children are too tired to be productive, rather it being a constant rotation of different children missing different weeks that would happen if term time holidays were permitted. Maybe a compromise would be that term time holidays would be permitted in the last week of term? (only the travel agents would sound twig and put the prices up for that week????)

MarmaladeTwatkins · 22/07/2013 22:16

But that's your choice,NewName. You chose a career knowing that. Just like I work part-time in retail, I know that annual leave in November/December is off-limits. I can't moan about that because I am choosing that line of work.

I think that what most of us resent is being told what is best for our children and not trusting us to make decisions for ourselves. A blanket rule is stupid in this case. Case-by-case was working fine. Just another way of making sure that only the rich get to do nice things.

Tilly333 · 22/07/2013 22:16

NewName... I agree with you. I wouldn't expect you to have to do more work in a child's absence, but can you answer the question about film watching and 'wind down' at the end of terms.. does your school/you, allow/do this?
It just seems the new rules unfairly penalise the 'few days' before or at the end term holidaying parents.

TartyMcTart · 22/07/2013 22:17

Just as well then as most people on this thread are talking a lot of bollocks Smile

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