To think Toby Young has his own self to blame for his kids not having the childhood he had.

[MrButtercat]

In ref to Daily Fail Toby Young essay on the childhood his kids won't have.

In a nutshell Toby you give them too much screen time and spend too much money on them.Many kids of broke, sensible parents will have the childhood you describe.

My dc are the kids of an software coder if they can get by with an hour of screen time a day and amuse themselves for the rest of the day without needing £££££ sent on them any kid can.

My kids(twin boys 9,9 and dd 8) have been to Legoland once as we simply don't have the money for petrol to drive there let alone the entrance fee- they survive.We took sandwiches as the food you describe is waaaay out of our budget(and foul I'm sure).

They don't stamp their feet for expensive days out or loll about doing nothing during the holidays.Yes we're lucky to live in Devon(in a busy market town with the same traffic risks as everybody else) however my kids amuse themselves on a budget of zero because they have to.They love cubs and their summer will be an extension of that.Fire making in the drive using magnifying glasses,hours of hop scotch,tennis matches over a chalk line,reading,water pistol fights,bike riding up and down their road,local park,pop up tent pretend camping,playing with the mountains of boards games and craft stuff we have etc,etc.

Days out will be the beach with sandwiches,free bike rides,woods,streams and moor rambles.

Yes w're lucky however I reserve my sympathy for the parents of kids stuck in apartment blocks on a zero budget or those that have to work on a low budget not the parents of spoilt middle class kids who have the money and time to take their kids to Kenya.

Buy a lock for your screen gadgets,get library cards (your kids will read more when bored)and stainless steel water bottles so you never need buy expensive plastic bottles of drink again.

You are the organ grinder of your dc's childhood and having an awful lot more cash and facilities than the maj of parents are perfectly well placed to give your kids the childhood they desire.

A very cool post. Love it! Has made me even more excited for the summer holidays with Dd!

Plus I agree wholeheartedly. Fun and games have become so consumerised and they absolutely don't need to be. Judging by watching the children play in our mud kitchen at school! Chasing around the trees, mucking about in the water tray, finding interesting stones etc. Brilliant!

Haven't read the article but you don't sound unreasonable to me. I do feel a little sorry that kids like mine won't be able to while away the holidays in the way you describe as they will be parcelled off to holiday club as we both have to work.

But I'm all for them making their own fun at the weekends!

From what I can see from my class aGnother kids have the best time in the company of their peers mucking about outside! I bet your kids will have a brilliant time at their holiday club. I worry about my Dd being an onlychild in the holidays so try to meet up with lots of friends in the park most days.

Yes, I read that earlier and I agree.

We set ourselves a challenge last year during the summer holidays. To do something every day and only spend the price of an icecream.

We are, however, incredibly lucky where we live as we do have beaches, etc on our doorstep

We went crabbing, cycle ride with a picnic, up our local hill with kites, beach with a picnic (even on cold days we went with a flask of hot choc and built campfires), leg cricket in the park, geocaching, the kids built wigwams and camps in the garden, they put a huge table cloth over the dining room table and built dens.

A friend of mine constantly complains that her kids cost a fortune during the holidays and are glued to the TV/PC but we have so much free stuff on our doorsteps, I have little sympathy

YANBU I thought exactly the same when I read the article.

Come back when you have teenagers - I can just see my 18/17/13yo bug hunting and making dens. Frankly all of them are a bit old for water pistol fights and upping the table pretending to be a pirate style games.

Cant do anything we did as kids because moany people complain about footballs, wall ball, impromptu tennis and cricket matches, the noise blah blah blah.

Something that is cheap enough for one child is horrendous when multiplied three times.

Exactly Freddie, parents stuck in apartment blocks with zero cash I sympathise with ,ditto working parents on limited budgets who are both working all hols but Toby Young sorry not so much.

Also in the 70s(and I am of a certain age so do remember) we didn't all live in the midst of Swallows and Amazon country and had to amuse ourselves on buggar all,it is possible for kids to find amusement in their own backyard or road.

Perhaps Toby Young could put his energies more into the blocking off roads for play schemes or saving school fields so kids at holiday clubs have more green spaces instead of pushing free schools.

Holly, that is so true about people comaining about noise! One of my neighbours was having a game of cricket in an alley way with his son and was chased off by residents moaning about the noise. I take your point about teenagers.

Yes I agree re teenagers.Our town has a lovely youth club(or it did before the cuts) presume it's still running,must find out.

He really is in his own little bubble, isn't he? I live in a fairly m/c area and most kids have loads of gadgets and do activities but the streets are full from morning until night with kids playing.

Agree its not so rosy when you have teens who are not into the tent in the garden stage. Keeping 3 teens occupied is difficult, although by that age I expect the older two to be fending for themselves.
It is also much more difficult if you are not a sahm (or a teacher) and have to work through the holidays.
Have offered a picnic on the beach today which youngest DC is up for, but older ones eye rolled at.

YANBU

DS1 is 10 and spends most of his time at the moment building dens, wading through the (shallow) river and seeing how fast he can ride his bike down hills. Pretty much the same as a 10 year old would have done in 1976.

I don't think complaining about the noise is a new think. People complained about the noise in the 70s and my Dad talks about being chased by neighbours for making too much noise in the 30s. Alan Bennett brings it up again and again in his plays, his parents had an end terrace and his dad would chase kids who played football against the wall, presumably in the 40s/50s.

Jem my friend has a 13 year old and he is out every day with a rucksack and his mates.Said friend just drops him off and picks him up.They have zero spare cash.He is very sensible though.

I reckon this is a reverse AIBU.

Are you Mr Young, OP.

Why don't people ever hearken back to idyllic Tudor childhoods, I wonder? Or to the glorious authenticity of childhood amongst the shanty towns of Rio?

I'm pretty happy with my children and how they spend their time. I'm doing my best. And I figure most other parents are too.

I even don;t judge Toby Young for whoring himself out ethically with a flatulent article aimed squarely at making parents feel shit about themselves: he's doing it for his family, i guess. We most of us do what we can. We most of us try to cause as little hurt as possible. And, considered as a while, I do believe that the general balance is towards the good.

So perhaps we should now take a moment to think about what we will do today to leave spite, and hurt, and contempt for others, and fear, to one side, and to try and extend the love we feel for those close to us, to others that we do not know.

That should be "considered as a whole".

Nope certainly not Toby Young "spite" and "contempt" nah I simply think his article is self pitying bollocks.

Toby Young suffers from having had a very clever, successful Dad, who spent his life making a difference and doing good things. (Michael Young, founded the Open University and the Consumers' Association, amongst other things.) Toby has spent his life rebelling and making a career out of failing to measure up. Understandable in your teens and 20s, tedious in a middle-aged man.

He had the dream childhood and he still turned out a twat.

This is true, and I haven't read the article, but some parents simply don't know how to do thing differently and I don't think they should really be judged. Also I know how hard it is to have a kid that won't entertain himself - ds is like this. We do limit screen time but its bloody hard and frankly sometimes the 'easy option' is to use screens. Especially when you're busy and frazzled. So I can understand why parents resort to this. Not everyone has endless patience and planning skills to think of wholesome activities to do, not every kid actually wants to root around in mud all day.

And you forget peer pressure. When surrounded by other children who have the latest gadgets and trips it can hard for the child to fit in if they are not allowed these things. So again, I can understand the parents with means succumbing.

To be clear. I do agree with you, op. just playing devils advocate a little.

I hadn?t realised how much they were missing out until I took them to Kenya at the beginning of the year

I know, Toby, it's tragic, isn't it?

Surely at 17/18 they earn their own money & do their own thing?

That's ok Cat

The thing is though those struggling parents generally wouldn't go writing articles bemoaning their lot or blaming society if they were clearly loaded and had choices/ resources the maj don't.

Limited I know,I had a guffawf at that.

Diddums!