to be impressed by Frankie Boyle's hunger strike?

[Isabeller]

grauniad link here

The jokes then that FB made about children with Down's Syndrome all looking the same, having bowl haircuts and dying early - where do they fall? Are they black humour, gallows humour, irony? Or the stand up equivalent of a 15 year old throwing a stinking bag of shite at someone who is deemed an acceptable target for hatred and cruelty, purely because they are born with a slightly different set of chromosomes?

I wonder if Branleuse would laugh if Frankie Boyle made a 'joke' about her child raping/fucking her (or his child raping his wife, if Branleuse is male)?

I would also say to Branleuse - making jokes about disabled people in the way that FB does, and laughing at them/condoning them, is the acceptable end of the spectrum, at the other end of which is disabled people being assaulted just for being disabled. When supposedly civilised people can accept jokes about any sector in society that makes that sector out to be less worthy of respect, that attitude trickles down through society, and at the neanderthal levels, will lead to violence and assault. Do you want to be part of that spectrum, Branleuse?

Well said, SDT.

trickles down?

other end of the spectrum?

youre being hysterical.

If i was famous, and put my child in the spotlight, then id say that it came with the territory. I wouldnt say id 'like' being the butt of any jokes particularly, but that doesnt equate to it being outrageous or wrong for it to happen.

Im really disturbed by the level of censorship and micromanagement of peoples freedom and even THOUGHTS that a lot of people on mumsnet seem to want. Im not sure that its actually representative of the country as a whole

He takes the piss out of EVERYONE. He is not singling out disabled people.

No, he doesn't. He doesn't take the piss out of his own parents, black people, muslims, people in G bay.

Child murder victims. And nor should he. But presumably he censors himself where along the line. He is a disgusting, unfunny, cynical, inhumane and stupid man and he diminishes everyone with his humour.

However, he must be even thicker than first thought if he thinks most people will not see his stunt as just that..a stunt.

Basically, if you say something upsetting which people take as hate-speech, and then you have to explain that it was just a fucking joke all right? - you're not doing comedy right.

you could always put in requests

Branleuse. You are right FB was not singling out 'disabled people' he was singling out a single named child who has disabilities. I don't see how his mothers actions have anything to do with it. Surely, Harvey should have the same rights as anyone else regardless of what you think of his mother.

So in your 'uncensored' world anyone in the public forum is game to be subjected to ' jokes' like the 'joke' FB told ABOUT Harvey.

branlause. You are still giving very general replies. It would be interesting if you directly answered some of the questions people have directed at you.

I would be fainted to know if you think it would have been unacceptable for FB to make the 'joke' about Harvey if he was able to understand or whether you only think it was acceptable because he isn't capable of understanding.

Interested NOT Fainted

im going to really try harder to keep my sense of humour to more acceptable things.

Will immediately put on some replays of youve been framed etc.

I bow to your superior humour, and well... your superior...humanity

I AM the cause of all the worlds problems as I am THE THIN END OF THE WEDGE.

sincerely

The acceptable end of the spectrum x

last thing slangwanger, I dont really have any feelings about the issue youre asking me.

I do however, respect your right to enjoy any comedy, film, music, art, literature that you enjoy without question.

Hurting people and interfering in their lives/rights = bad
joking about people = ok (even if lots of people dont find it funny)

Branlause
gotta love your response. Says it all really!

I really love how even you can't ACTUALLY say that it is more acceptable to ridicule Harvey because he isn't able to understand FBs 'joke'. Is it one step too far even for you?

Branleuse, are you against any sort of hate speech legislation?

I know you think it is an hysterical reaction, but do you not think that when a group of people are dehumanised because of their race, gender, sexual orientation or disability, that it can create a society where it becomes ok to treat those people as lesser and other to everyone else. So you can cut benefits, and have hate crime, and it is not dealt with as seriously, because, well it's just happening to 'those people'

I remember in the 70s and 80s when it wasn't seen as that bad to talk about pakis and nig nogs, and refer to people with learning disabilities as spaz and retard, it was ok, because it was all out there on our tvs, with Bernard Manning and Jim Davidson and programmes like Love Thy Neighbour. Why is FB any different to any of that comedy?

branlause
I also wonder if you would admit to finding that joke acceptable to people in real life, or can you only dare to say these things anonymously on the Internet.

I would love to see how that conversation would go. Especially if your kids were about. Now that would be amusing.

i wouldnt let my kids watch frankie boyle. Certainly not. Theyre not old enough. Wouldnt let them watch anything 18 rated.

I probably wouldnt bring up a frankie boyle conversation with most people in real life, although I would with others. Probably in the same way that youd be unlikely to question someone in real life about it as much as you have here, even if the conversation did come up. Im not particularly interested in performing a more acceptable identity here to you now. I dont feel I have to, so im being as honest as possible.

I dont consider FB to be using hate speech. Not at all. I dont think he is inciting anything. I think it is not even the same issue in the slightest.

I am pretty much all for freedom of speech.
I go by the saying that if you do not have freedom of speech for the people you despise, then you dont have freedom of speech at all, and I am very concerned with the erosion of personal liberty in this country, although i guess its partly to be expected with people living so close together. I am surorised by how many people seem to be embracing it though, and swallowing the line that its for the greater good, or some such bullshit.

i dont really know if its worse slang whanger. Im trying to work out whether id laugh any less if there was a joke on one of jordans other children, or some other celebrities children, and I have to say, I care very little either for the individual sensibilities of any of them to have had one joke made by a comedian who is renowned for this sort of thing. I think the emotional damage that those children face just by being constantly in the spotlight is without doubt going to be far worse than any individual joke or comment, but being that I dont know those children, and it isnt illegal, then it isnt very high on my list of political issues at the moment

so i guess its not worse

youre all very interested in how I feel about this. Its like im a scientific sample!!

I note with little surprise that Branleuse focused on the second part of my post, and totally ignored my question - so I will repeat it in the hope of a reply:

I wonder if Branleuse would laugh if Frankie Boyle made a 'joke' about her child raping/fucking her (or his child raping his wife, if Branleuse is male)?

And no, I am not hysterical - I am trying to explain why I believe jokes like the one FB made contribute to an atmosphere in which it is OK to treat disabled people with less respect. Calling that hysterical is the sort of lazy, ad hominem attack that is often used when someone cannot marshal a decent response to a debate.

im female.

I wouldnt laugh, no.

Joke would be on me, which is ultimately LESS funny to me, than the joke being on someone else.

I wasnt expecting jordan to find it funny either tbh. I was expecting her to be very offended, which is funnier in itself, than the actual joke.

Its not like i think the joke on its own, is clever, or the funniest thing ive ever heard.
As part of a sketch that was topical at the time, it was taboo and it was offensive and it was bad, and i laughed, which i see is terrible of me, and contributing to all sorts of societal evils, that outweigh any good things about me.

I still think youre hysterical, and i think that my continued answering of these questions is anything but lazy, considering how bored of it I now am.

I really should get out of my pyjamas.

The reason why people keep questioning you is because I find it pretty astounding that you think it is ok for an extremely popular comedian, with best selling books and dvds and sell out shows, to make jokes which are so horrendously ill informed and vile about people with disabilities, especially when you have disabled children yourself. I am not just talking about the Harvey joke, and I don't think that joke is only about how it affects Harvey as he grows up. Every single person who has ever heard that joke and rolled around with laughter, is laughing at a piece of hate about a stereotype of people with learning disabilities.

So if someone saying that all black people look the same,have funny hair and doing a mocking impression of the way 'they' speak, is unacceptable and an example of hate speech, then why is it not the same when someone says the same thing about people with Down's Syndrome?

if I were being charitable, I would say anyone who finds him funny is more to be pitied than laughed at.

I can imagine them laughing in all sorts of inappropriate and tragic situations and I do try to understand that it is because some part of their brain. some filter, isn't working properly or that they were raised in feral circumstances

That is a shame but when a gang of them get together to roar like hyenas at people who may already be in vulnerable situations and poke them with verbal sticks, laughing at the hunchback's hump, then that is when that mentality becomes normalised to them.

It is only the first step to dehumanising vulnerable groups and the horrors that issue forth from that. It all has to begin with a first step and Boyle and his half witted fans have already put their hoofs on that path.

As a woman and a mother, you should be ashamed of yourself.

I see he has been declared, 'very clever and politically aware.'

Compared to a baby penguin he may be very clever and, after much thought, I would judge him to be about as politically aware as a doughnut.

You think it is funny to joke about rape? Vile, incomprehensible, and as missmarple says, you should be ashamed.

Presumeably you wouldn't laugh if Katie Price actually was raped? Or maybe it would be even funnier if it actually happened?