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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that no-one should go to Dubai

249 replies

Sallyingforth · 20/07/2013 14:42

while they treat women like this...

Jailed for being raped.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23381448

OP posts:
PlatinumStart · 21/07/2013 14:42

Genuine question - those of you who would never travel to Dubai on ethical grounds do you boycot other countries?

My experience is that those who loathe Dubai all seem to have a thing for the slightly hippy-esque India trail. The irony seems to escape them.

foreverondiet · 21/07/2013 14:43

YANBU - would never go.

LurkingBeagle · 21/07/2013 14:44

Bridget - of course it's not okay, but good luck managing without oil.

SnakeSkinCharly · 21/07/2013 14:45

Agree@Platinum.

China, India - fine.
Dubai - not.

A little bit of snobbery in there, I think.

Its fine to trail around Cambodia, doing the whole 'good for the soul' SE Asia trail, despite the child sex slave trade. But the 'excesses' of Dubai are just toooooo much.

PlatinumStart · 21/07/2013 14:56

Apologies Bridget I misread.

JassyRadlett · 21/07/2013 15:03

Mrs K, if you're actually serious there's a lot of information around on how to visit countries and support local communities without supporting regimes one finds abhorrent.

But I suspect you were going for the rhetorical flourish.

MrsKeithRichards · 21/07/2013 15:05

Genuinely interested in where people go.

JackieTheFart · 21/07/2013 15:11

I would never go.

I made this decision about 8 years ago when I read an article about how the big towers were being built by men bussed in from neighbouring countries and being kept as slaves.

I agree some other cities may well have been built by slave labour....but this is 2013, not 1813! This article is just the final nail in the coffin for me.

My ethical destination of choice would be Watford, which is the only holiday I we have had for the past 5 years Grin.

BrainSurgeon · 21/07/2013 15:17

I'm with Fell and LurkingBeagle.
Sooo many people here have no idea what they are talking about Hmm

ExcuseTypos · 21/07/2013 15:20

Vile place. I don't understand why anyone would want to holiday, never mind live in such a place.

I heard the poor woman who was jailed for being raped, talking on the radio yesterday. Horrendous experience for her from start to finish.
The hotel manager tried to talk her out of phoning the police because he knew what would happen. She obviously didn't quite believe him. She really wants to raise awareness of what the place is like, so thank you for starting this thread OP.

SHarri13 · 21/07/2013 15:20

Why do people go there? What's the appeal other than £££?

LurkingBeagle · 21/07/2013 15:25

She has not been jailed, she is appealing her conviction, the police are not looking for her and have no intention of making her serve a custodial sentence - probably mindful of the media shitstorm. Her rapist is in jail.

LurkingBeagle · 21/07/2013 15:27

SHarri - what's the appeal? Sunshine 365 days a year, beautiful beaches, no income tax, comparative freedom, higher standard of living than the UK and no crime to speak of. And the recession is over here (insh'allah).

What's the appeal of living in the UK these days? Hmm

ExcuseTypos · 21/07/2013 15:34

Lurking she WAS in jail for 4 days. She was told by the police that they knew what kind of girl she was- a slag who slept with men when she was drunk. If it wasn't for the intervention of her Embassy I expect she'd still be there. Stop trying to minimise what has happened to her.

squoosh · 21/07/2013 15:35

What's the appeal of living in the UK?

The fact it isn't a dictatorship is good enough for me.

Hmm
ExcuseTypos · 21/07/2013 15:39

Indeed Squosh and I'd like to add, a place where you aren't jailed when you have been raped.

Did someone also point out that for a rape to have happened in Dubai, you have to be married and you need 4 male witnessesSad Angry

LurkingBeagle · 21/07/2013 15:42

UAE law makes it an offence to drink without a licence. She was arrested for being drunk and not producing an alcohol licence so in the eyes of the law she had committed a crime. I have no idea whether or not she was intoxicated, but if she was, then yes, I expect there were inferences drawn about whether the sex was consensual. That IS a cultural issue, but it also happens in the UK. In a place where alcohol is banned for everyone except tourists and ex pats with a licence then I expect those inferences would be 10 times worse.

I think that what happened to this lady was abhorrent, as I have said many, many times on this thread. However, nobody is forced here at gunpoint. The UAE legal system is based on Sharia which as any fule kno takes a rather harsh view of these things. If you choose to come here then I think it's reasonable to educate yourself about these things, and yes, that is particularly important if you are a woman, and yes, it stinks.

DeepPurple · 21/07/2013 15:43

Woman are respected in Dubai, they just don't have the same level of equality that we have in Britain. Women often have separate queues so they are served first! They are seen as the backbone of the family.

Maids are "owned" by families to the extent that they are not in possession of their own passport. The reason for this is that they are being sponsored by the family and if the maid was to do anything wrong the sponsor can be fined, imprisoned or thrown out of the country. Most maids make around £300-£600 per month. They also have their visa costs paid, a month holiday each year which most use in one block to visit their home country. Flights to and from their home country are paid by the sponsor and they are also provided accommodation and a food allowance. £300 a month doesn't sound that bad when you consider the overall package really. What do we pay au pairs in the uk? Considering a three bed house costs around £30k a year to rent, a private room in a house is good value. Many maids own several properties in their own countries as working in Dubai gives them enough money to do that.

The conditions that the workers you see around aren't great but they given a wage, accommodation and health care as part of their package. I'm not saying that living in camped conditions is good for them but many are very greatful that they have a job. They come from countries where they would struggle to find work to feed their families.

Service workers in hotels are often given accommodation within the hotel.

Someone mentioned using children for camel racing. This is not true anymore and hasn't been for some time. The camels are now ridden by robots.

The cost of a can of coca cola is regulated to ensure that everyone can afford it. The price (in a shop) is fixed at 1.5 dhs which is around 30p.

It is illegal to have sex outside of marriage in Dubai. It is also illegal to live with your partner. These things are generally ignored as long as you do not get in to trouble for anything else.

Being gay is also illegal. Again, a blind eye is turned providing you aren't being obvious about it.

Saudi has far worse conditions for women than Dubai. If a single woman falls pregnant whilst in Saudi then she will be imprisioned, given lashes and then deported with "prostitiute" stamped on her passport.

There are many things that can improve in Dubai but things have been improving over time. The country is relatively new and they are still working out the kinks.

Someone mentioned not being able to leave your hotel? Absolute rubbish! You can go wherever you choose! There is plenty to do and many places to see. It is safe to go where ever you want to with little crime happening. Theft, assaults, murder, robbery etc are all very rare.

The education system is entirely private. This can be costly but you are assured a high standard of education with a maximum of 22 children in a class and a teacher and teaching assistant in each class.

The healthcare is private but of a very high standard. There is also a hospital that will see migrant workers that have not got medical insurance. This treatment is free.

There is still a lot that can be improved but sitting in Britain, clutching pearls and saying you'll boycott the place won't help.

DeepPurple · 21/07/2013 15:46

And to echo what has already been said, she wasn't jailed for being raped, she was jailed for being drunk without a licence. Her rapist is in prison, she is not.

LurkingBeagle · 21/07/2013 15:46

Excuse Typos - your understandning of the law is wrong. Please RTFT.

pumpkinsweetie · 21/07/2013 15:49

Yanbu, how can they use the word 'sex' it was rape!!!

skylerwhite · 21/07/2013 15:55

Boycotting is not simply clutching pearls, DeepPurple - it's one of the few ways that ordinary individuals can make informed choices to effect socio-political change.

I wouldn't dream of going there. And I wonder how those who go off to Dubai in order to live tax-free for a few years and build up a nest egg are able to live with the knowledge that they are directly profiting from the misery, poverty and inequality of their fellow human beings.

Arcticspill · 21/07/2013 16:04

There have been huge improvements in Dubai's social/ human rights issues. Why? Because of international scrutiny. The emirate wants to be recognised as one of the World's financial centres and as a desirable location. So slowly it has responded to pressure from expats, visiting statesmen (Blair, Clinton etc etc) and to adverse publicity. Hence the outlawing of child jockeys some years ago.

This soft diplomacy is considered by World leaders to be far more effective than simply leaving them to their own devices, ignored by more developed nations. There are still many issues there, but there is a huge amount of ignorance on this thread.

LurkingBeagle · 21/07/2013 16:06

Poverty, misery and inequality are everywhere. I do what I can to help and will continue to do so while I am lucky enough to be living here, which means my conscience is clear and I live with it comfortably. Surely it's better to be doing something to enhance other people's lives, rather than simply making snide comments on a forum whilst kidding yourself that you have the moral high ground?

skylerwhite · 21/07/2013 16:12

Er, you know nothing about what I do to support other people's lives, Lurking Hmm. But thanks for the condescension all the same.

As for the assertion, repeated a few times, that things in Dubai and UAE are improving, it's worth noting that Human Rights Watch has reported for the last four years that conditions are worsening.