To think that no-one should go to Dubai

[Sallyingforth]

while they treat women like this...

Jailed for being raped.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23381448

"Dubai doesn't appeal to me at all, anymore than living in, say, Surrey and having an au pair would."

How to undermine a cause when seeming to support it.
The conditions that Au Pairs live in in Surrey is vastly superior to migrant workers in Dubai. They have their own room, food provided, wages paid to them (not with-held to pay a debt), and have full rights within the law.

The only exploited "maid" I have known was brought with her family when they moved from the ME, I did have a few issues with them to be honest.

To be honest the whole idea of Dubai has never appealed and that was before I found out about the slave labour,horrendous attitude to rape.

It's an utterly superficial shallow place. A friend goes there regularly on work,he really enjoys it but everything he tells me,every time he goes, makes me less rather than more keen.

I've been a few times and will go again, well Abu Dhabi really but we visit Dubai each time. We have family there.

It's a different world alright, there's a local paper delivered each day translated into English for the expats benefit and the daily occurrences reported in there and the acceptance that this is how it is shocking. Last time I was there Malaysia had put a blanket ban on its citizens working there after yet another murder of a Malaysian maid at the hands of their employers.

It's a strange feeling there. In every day life YOU are totally a second class citizen. One thing I would say is whites are treated no different to other ethnicities. My family member is a manager there but to his Arab employers he's still just a servant. There is this undercurrent of fear as well eg a taxi driver became very shouty and aggressive towards us when we queried the route he took, we had had it drummed into us by family who live there to never argue back if you come into conflict because you cannot win. You do feel very aware of the limitations to fair treatment you can expect. It feels vaguely threatening all the time.

Saying all that though I do love it there. I have learned a lot about the culture there and do find it fascinating. One thing that is strange is how American it is. American sweets and snacks in the garages and the malls full of American restaurants and shops.

It's not as plastic and false as you think it will be before you go, you do have to immerse yourself in it though. And the Abra's (water taxis) in Dubai are flipping terrifying!

I remember the scandal with child jockeys (some of whom were toddlers) and camel racing. I swore then that I would never set foot in Dubai, and have yet to change my mind.

Horrified by that story but I loved Dubai.
It was the best holiday I've ever had, felt very safe there walking round as 2 women in a city on Saturday night which we would never do in the UK.

People we met, both local and migrant workers were lovely and I can't wait to go again

I lived in the middle east for many years. I remember Dubai when it was a small port with one (not very good) hotel. Ethical tourism is a whole different debate. Where WOULD you approve of to visit? Capitalism is not the reason women are second class citizens in Dubai.

We're moving there in the New Year...I think forewarned is forearmed. You have to know about the laws of any country you are going to visit or inhabit. The girl's story is heartbreaking but going to the Middle East to drink and party is a very risky proposition indeed; it's not Ibiza. This has happened to other women and I believe the man in this case was jailed too?

FWIW I am appalled at the idea of having a maid or live-in of any sort and malls make me want to poke my eyes out. DH has the opportunity to work for a mentor in his field and my children will have the opportunity to experience another part of the world and attend excellent schools. Plus, if I have to endure another Canadian winter I may lose the plot. I hope to do a lot of swimming there .

Why are you appalled at a maid or live in nanny?

I can't imagine having someone else living in my house...I like privacy and not talking to anyone for long stretches of time (total introvert...it takes me 6 hours to recharge my batteries for when my three chatterboxes come home from school) and I feel it would be awkward having to make small talk all the time and wondering whether they had everything they needed, whether they were happy, whether you were taking care of them properly. HUGE responsibility.

Well they are all perfectly good reasons I guess!

I lived there for a year and worked as a journalist until I discovered the extent to which the press is still censored, despite noises being made about greater openness. I also did some volunteering with the charity Adopt a Camp, and saw the appalling conditions in which the labourers are housed in desert camps, and how frequently their pay was withheld by dubious property companies. Maids are not protected by even the same minimal labour laws as other employees, and are vulnerable to exploitation and abuse.

Under a veneer of Westernness and tourist-friendliness, the place is a dictatorship, with all important government posts held by the same royal family members. Corruption is rife, and there us a strict racial hierarchy in terms of types of employment. Residence is linked to employment, which makes all non-citizens (nine tenths of the population) very vulnerable.

I loathe hot weather and shopping malls, but it was an interesting place to live, for all the wrong reasons. The inner workings of a dictatorship trying to balance Sharia law with being tourist friendly involves all kinds of the most torturous double-speak, with new laws being declared and sometimes rescinded in a week. Emiratis are outnumbered by foreigners ten to one in Dubai, and as the discovery of oil meant they went from nomadic camel herders to extraordinary wealth in a generation, it's a very confused society with huge obesity problems and a massive identity crisis.

That's really interesting shrugged.

The more I read, the more I never ever want to go. I still recall an article in the observer a few years back about African labourers brought into Dubai who harms their passports confiscated. Working for essentially nothing, living rough and they couldn't even leave the country. It was so sad.

I could never relax on holiday knowing such misery underpinned my pleasure.

Had, not harms... Stupid iPhone...

Great post, Shrugged. Adopt-a-camp was already on my list of things to do after I get the kids settled in. Anyone know of any women's aid organizations, charities? I know there are lots of MNetters in the ME!

Sadly Qantas have changed their Australia-UK routing to go through Dubai, hence boosting the region.

Well we will not be using Qantas and adding to tourist revenue going into Duabi. Singapore or Malaysian only.

Had no idea that only 10% of Dubai's population had citizenship status.

It's a shocking story but your conclusion that noone should therefore go to Dubai is a bit crazy.

I have been spending most of my spare time in Brazil for years - a country where, when I first started going, you could pay a policeman to shoot a street child for you. A country where children who have been sexually abused by their fathers or brothers are the ones who are removed from their homes and put in shelters because the mothers can't cope without the men. A country where people live in favelas and children, often addicted to glue or crack cocaine, work on the streets all day for a few centavos while people just a few streets away live in beautiful masions.

I have been to India where the caste system and prejudice against Dalits is alive and well. Where teenagers can be forcibly married off to men twice their age and where the conditions for street children are potentially even worse than those in Brazil.

I have been to Lesotho where men in rural areas believe that having sex with a baby cures AIDS and where it is widely accepted that men who have to work in South Africa for a month at a time can't possibly be expected not to sleep around and bring yet more HIV back with them.

I have been to Egypt where the vast majority of women and young girls are subjected to female circumcision.

Oh yes, and I live in England where we belittle women who are raped by saying they asked for it by wearing a short skirt or by drinking. And where we take more and more from the poor, sick and disabled while the wealthy get richer.

The world is a fucked up place but we're in it and we can't avoid evil wherever we go.

japonicabumsplatt

The family will probably be fine. I've worked with people who previously worked in Saudi and lived on 'compounds' where they drove to work (women allowed to drive on compounds) and basically lived as they would here.

I have lived in Dubai for several years and do not recognise the place from some of these descriptions! The latest in the press here is that the woman is no longer under the protection of the Norwegian embassy, is not wanted by the police, and will appeal her conviction. Her rapist is in jail.

I find the UAE law that has been used against this poor woman abhorrent, but frankly, if the UAE government wants to base a system on Sharia law then it's their business. It really is up to people who choose to visit to educate themselves about what is expected of them (e.g. it's risky to drink without a licence here). That applies to the Middle East and anywhere else. Those who criticise Dubai are often the same supposedly liberal individuals who support a culturally relativist view in the UK.

FWIW - I have a maid, and she is paid more than the agency "asks" of me simply because I want to keep her happy and ensure she has what she needs. Most of my friends do the same. We are all mindful of the conditions in labour camps and there are many volunteer programs for donations and collections, particularly at this time of year (Ramadan). Conditions have also improved somewhat in recent years. Whilst I am here, I will do what I can to improve the lives of people at a comparative educational/financial disadvantage. Boycotting the place will not change their situation - unfortunately most people are not lucky enough to enjoy the advantages that we often take for granted.

And yes, I am here for mainly selfish reasons - paying no income tax for several years will make a massive difference to my quality of life when I return to the UK and it has enabled me to start paying off the mortgage and debts. I could never, ever have done so whilst paying the punitive tax rates in the UK.

If its up to people to "educate" themselves we really must advise more women not to be raped whilst visiting, then eh?
How silly of them.

I'm delighted you are pleased with your financial planning and put money in collecting tins. That's everyone's consciences soothed.

But many folk are hypocritical. Many folk would jump at the chance to make good money, live in a different culture for a while, send their kids to good schools if it was offered. We chose another country over Dubai as the other country sat better with my outlook on life. If Dubai had been the only choice then we would have took it.

No desire to spend my money visiting a concrete hole in the desert or indeed any country which oppresses women.

Its sad for these countries, as many of them have in recent history been far more open to travellers and traders in the past.

whilst their own citizens are living in slums behind these skyscrapers

This is not true. The Emiratis are few in number and are treated very well. It is the migrant workers that live in poorly.

Doesn't make it right but just trying to be factually correct.

Bling bang, I don't know many people who have actively chosen to move there. It's usually out of absolute financial necessity. DH and I could, with our jobs, move there tomorrow. And we, like everyone else, are not in a good state financially.

No bloody way.

daddypig - I would advise them not to go out and drink/get drunk without a licence, yes. That is illegal here. It doesn't make what happened to this lady any more palatable but the UAE is a sovereign state that can create laws based on Sharia as it sees fit. Nobody is forced to come here.

Personally, I am happy to relinquish my right to get intoxicated in public and dress immodestly (not that I am suggesting the Norwegian lady did this) in return for living in a spotlessly clean country with excellent healthcare for the majority with little or no crime.

And you have totally missed the point of my post. The way in which migrant workers are treated will not change simply because a few people boycott the place. At least I am actually doing something to help - only on Mumsnet could that be turned into an insult!

And FWIW, the comparative financial advantages I enjoy here have changed my life and my family's for the better and I am grateful. As someone upthread said, not many people would turn down that kind of opportunity, particualrly when turning it down makes little or no practical difference to the people on whose behalf you are protesting.