To think parents should teach their children how to behave round dogs

[Xihha]

There have been a few posts lately about people needing to control their dogs more (and I agree, if you cant control our dog and clean up after it then you shouldn't have a dog imo), but is it unreasonable to expect parents to teach children to be a bit more careful round dogs?

Whilst walking my dog (on his lead) a child who looked about 10 ran up and stuck his head in my dogs face to make a fuss of him whilst i was picking up doggys poo, without checking if it was ok, there have been other times kids have just walked up and started pulling doggy around, this sort of thing happens a lot, especially in the summer when there are more kids out playing and the parents rarely say anything about it.

It's not really an issue with my great soppy lump of a dog because he loves kids and will put up with anything for a bit of fuss but shouldn't these kids know that you should check with the owners before approaching strange dogs and that even a nice dog can get pissed of if you start pulling it around?

I'm well south in NZ so day time here, mid winter so midday walks are perfect, but no swimming fun for us. Gotta love a walk in the rain.

It is just so hard to keep my head when someone says such things about my precious fur baby, say what you like about me but leave the dog out of it, especially when they are misquoting me.

My mum is terrifies of dogs, so I am more cautious than most about keeping her a good distance from people that could be scared, she has a big smile and some huge teeth.

I hope you and your dogs enjoy your walk, I have to go spend some time with the hound as she is getting a bit confused about why mum is so worked up. keeps bloody well trying to lick me to cheer me up, not helping at all.

Only on mumsnet (should be a t-shirt).

Another bit of dog education for those that appear to need it. The vast majority of dogs are more nervous on a lead because they are constrained & cannot move away from danger. My dog is quite happy around unknown children off lead but is noticeably nervous of them if approached on lead. It's why I always refuse to allow children to stroke him when he is on a lead.

It's very basic dog psychology which is useful for anyone to know. It's also why often more dog/dog aggression takes place when the dogs are on leads (and why I don't allow my dog to run up to other dogs on leads a) being on a lead is often a sign they don't want to be approached and b) being greeted by an off lead dog when on lead is more likely to lead to a bit of a scrap).

As an adult I am cautious of dogs on leads. I am cautious about my dog approaching dogs on leads. I would have to be some sort of idiot to declare it fine for my children to approach dogs on leads.

Ah sympathies my mum is scared of rescue dogs, all of my dogs are rescue dogs, therefore they are faulty and she cannot be left alone with them, in case they show their true colours. NOt my rescue Whippy though, she is fine and luvverly. And my last greyhound was also fine luvverly. The two before that greyhound she wanted to adopt. But she still maintains that all rescue dogs are faulty

It's before 7am here I'm hoping to go swimming, which is why I am up.

Saintly, non dog owners should not have to learn to be sensible around dogs. Just as I, as a non driver, can not be expected to know that walking onto the road without first looking to make sure the road is clear, is not a sensible thing to do. I mean I am not the one who chooses to drive a killing machine, why should I have to spend time learning how to make myself safe around them? If you hit me it will be your fault and I will press charges, so nur!

It is going to rain today, I am looking forward to walking my dogs in the rain

And me. Up at 0530 this morning to walk at 6. Hopefully the lunchtime walk will actually be at lunchtime today. It's got earlier and earlier over the last couple of weeks.

Math - you don't appear to have much experience with dogs?

I have a young dog who has been trained to ignore people. Which he does. Until someone talks to directly to him when he passes out with excitement. People get down and fuss him and he leaps all over then. They say they don't mind, or tell you they have dogs or tell you they miss having dogs. Or say 'oh he's just young what a beautiful boy'. And while he's leaping around they carry on exciting him by tickling him & laughing. Yesterday a man actually took the lead out of my hand & tried to take him over to his family although MadDog was practically popping with excitement (& anxiety at being taken off me).

I'm afraid you're very much mistaken if you think 'no-one' wants a dog jumping up at them. Many strangers positively encourage it - on purpose - and the makes it impossible hard to train a dog not to over react to greetings from people. Each time it happens it is reinforced by the strangers. My dog is very easy to train, but he does need clear responses. And people reacting with delight to his response to being greeted (& they always do) doesn't help train a calm response to greetings. I would welcome people reacting negatively to his response because it would make it possible easier to train a calm response to greetings but they never have. Not once.

A lot of people love dogs and saying a dog should be shut away because he over reacts to greetings is insane. If you don't want a dog in your lap don't talk to it - mine ignores everyone until the moment they greet him.

As for whoever it was telling their children to beat a stray dog with a stick?? How utterly stupid. Do you want your child attacked or on animal cruelty charges? Do you tell them to beat horses as well (after all horses must kill more people than dogs each year).

Btw I don't take the words to mean someone doesn't mind maddog's ott reaction to being greeted but the fact they continue to pay/stroke/tickle/play with the dog. I'd be delighted if their response was to straighten and give a mealy mouthed 'it's fine' as MadDog would be trained not to overreact to greetings in a week.

Good Lord LtEve, 16 pages in and you finally agree my initial point was correct, despite you telling me umpteen times I was "100% wrong" all weekend.

As to your second 2 cases, you are still not getting the message. If your dog bites a child, in a public place, regardless of the circumstances, you are liable. It's in black and white on the very Dog Law site you quoted as near gospel, for heavens sake.

You personally clearly believe an errant child being bitten is less important than your doggy's health and welfare, and the child is to blame, but that is because you have the same skewed ethics as all the dog-nuts on this thread.

How many times do i have to repeat that it is not the way most of the rest of humanity looks at the situation, nor the view of the law.

The reality is that most other parents value their kids more than they value your dog, and will act accordingly if their child is bitten. Their reaction is not likely to be chastising their errant little one, and praising your dog for biting it. And you calling them damn fools when their kids are bleeding is not going to help your case, I promise you.

Another bit of dog education for those that appear to need it....

and

It's very basic dog psychology which is useful for anyone to know....

What will it take to finally get it through your head that other parents don't give a damn about your dog and it's psychology, all they are interested in is their child and it's safety.

I feel sorry for your children Lazyjaney "do not touch an animal without asking" is the same as "do not touch the oven" and "look both ways before crossing the road".

Regardless of who is liable if a dog were to bite a child, I'd judge a parent for not being bothered to teach their child not to approach a strange dog.

Oddly enough, some of us actually give a shit about your child and wouldn't want a random child hurt. Doesn't mean we want you to allow your child to injure our beloved pet.

lazy, you know you are wrong and yet you still post complete and utter bollocks. Why on earth, when you don't actually have any young children are you so insistent that teaching young children how to behave around dogs is wrong?

Is that not the very definition of trolling?

Er lazy - you are very rude. But the main point of teaching dog psychology is to reduce risk to children or adults. Likewise I teach my children not to stand right up the arse of a horse - for obvious reasons & because I know a little about horse behaviour. It's the same.

I do teach children road safety as well. Although in ds1's case he isn't safe around roads so is always held near traffic.

I am interested in what people teach their children about horses. We come across horses regularly - including on the beach & wild ponies on the moors. Do you teach a) nothing b) to ignore and give plenty of space or c) to approach, stand up it's backside and whack it with a stick because if you're hurt it's someone else's fault.

Or do we only save the stupidity of doing a or c for dogs.

Look. It all boils down to this. 1) Parents should teach their children how to behave around animals, and around cars and around swimming pools and other potentially dangerous things. However. 2)The owners of animals and cars and swimming pools and other dangerous things should behave as is if a child has not been taught how to behave around said dangerous things just in case the child hasn't, or has and forgets.

lazy, you know you are wrong and yet you still post complete and utter bollocks. Why on earth, when you don't actually have any young children are you so insistent that teaching young children how to behave around dogs is wrong?

I'm not wrong, you are living in a doggy distortion bubble where the rights of dogs supersede humans. In the real world they don't (btw i note you've finally agreed with me upthread, despite you saying I was "100% wrong" all weekend)

My point, which you seem completely unable to grasp after 3 days and 17 pages, is that whether I train my child or not is largely irrelevant, and the responsibility for safety still ultimately remains with the dog owner. This is because kids are kids, and cannot be totally controlled for the convenience of dog owners - and very importantly, in public spaces are not expected to be.

They will make mistakes no matter how well taught they are, but in places where they have a right to be, you are going to be liable.

I think lazy there's a difference between a child who has been taught but made a mistake & a child whose parents have refused to teach their child anything about dogs & reacts to advice on how to be safe around dogs negatively and aggressively.

I agree with curlew that I need to assume that a child hasn't been taught and that is why I tell children not to stroke him when he is on his lead and don't assume they have been taught that. I appreciate it if a parent then backs me up on that. To be fair the majority do & many apologise to me as well.

So if a parent backs me up or says nothing it's fine as far as I'm concerned. Providing their child is now giving us some space. If a parent responded by telling their child they don't have to listen & can approach any dog they like & have no responsibility towards anything that happens to them because it's always some

One else's fault then I would think they were insane. Each to their own though I guess.

I think lazy there's a difference between a child who has been taught but made a mistake & a child whose parents have refused to teach their child anything about dogs & reacts to advice on how to be safe around dogs negatively and aggressively

In what way different? is one child going to be found innocent if your dog bites it and the other not?

There is no difference in reality. As a dog owner in a public place you are always liable, irrespective of the child's "training". You have to assume the worst case.

Well usually the child who has been taught has sane parents. So when for example ds3 was kicked by a horse, being sane & able to see what had happened it was clear that the last in line for blame was the owner or horse.

Tbh with sensible dog owners, children who listen whether to owner or parents & sensible parents I can't really see there's going to be a problem anyway. Unless of course some idiot had taught their child they should beat any strange dog they see with a stick.

I agree you should teach children about dogs and asking permission. When I was growing up and I gave my dog a walk children would always ask permission to pet my "wolf", she was a husky and most children and teenagers were afraid of her.

Completely agree about teaching your child to respect dogs and not go newr without checking th owner.....although whilst you say your dog loves fuss etc, no dog can be trusted.

My daughter if freaked out by big dogs (she is 11) as a young terrier type dog in Germany ran and jumped up at her when she was 1. She loves little dogs now which we are pleased about because we didn't want that one occasion to put her off forever. We just always tell them not to go near dogs unless they ask.

No it's not. Do you have comprehension issues? I really don't want to get into a bun fight with someone unable to understand, but I'm quite happy to point out when a GF is simply being a GF.

The Dangerous Dogs Act states:

If a dog is dangerously out of control in a public place?
(a) the owner; and
(b) if different, the person for the time being in charge of the dog, is guilty of an offence, or, if the dog while so out of control injures any person, an aggravated offence, under this subsection^ (House of Commons Library, 2013 )

The key words there are dangerously out of control and if the dog, whilst out of control

A dog on a lead is NOT dangerously out of control and will not be automatically PTS unless the owner wishes that to happen.

Why would you take a dog out in public, who is "NOT FRIENDLY" without them wearing a muzzle?

That seems very irresponsible to me and yet another example of thinking dogs have equal/greater rights then humans.