To think parents should teach their children how to behave round dogs

[Xihha]

There have been a few posts lately about people needing to control their dogs more (and I agree, if you cant control our dog and clean up after it then you shouldn't have a dog imo), but is it unreasonable to expect parents to teach children to be a bit more careful round dogs?

Whilst walking my dog (on his lead) a child who looked about 10 ran up and stuck his head in my dogs face to make a fuss of him whilst i was picking up doggys poo, without checking if it was ok, there have been other times kids have just walked up and started pulling doggy around, this sort of thing happens a lot, especially in the summer when there are more kids out playing and the parents rarely say anything about it.

It's not really an issue with my great soppy lump of a dog because he loves kids and will put up with anything for a bit of fuss but shouldn't these kids know that you should check with the owners before approaching strange dogs and that even a nice dog can get pissed of if you start pulling it around?

It does matter, because responsibility is not just about liability.

You are responsible for your child. It is better to try to teach your child to avoid situations that might lead to them being harmed.

It costs you nothing to say to your child "Don't touch that dog unless it's owner says it's okay" because that helps the owner fulfil their responsibility to keep their dog under proper control. That's not to say that your child would deserve to be bitten but they are less likely to be bitten if they are aware of how to behave around dogs and usually the best person to teach them that is a responsible parent.

Everybody benefits from both parties taking proper care. In the same way they do if you tell your child not to run into the road without looking.

Are you seriously saying that you wouldn't wish you had said that to your child if he or she was bitten by a dog they had run up to and grabbed? Would your first thought really be "at least I'm not liable for this"?

And really, really don't tell them that if they see a stray dog running about the best thing to do is approach it and beat it with a stick. It's not likely that a dog will attack them if they leave it alone, and even a dog being hit with a stick will try to get away before it will attack. But if anything is going to make an otherwise peaceful dog bite someone, it's attacking it with a stick for no reason.

It is a dog owner's responsibility to socialise a dog properly and to decide, with the welfare of all other people in mind, whether their dog is a suitable candidate for being taken out to places where they are likely to encounter people, including children. If your dog gets nervous to the point of being close to biting when children approach then you should not take the dog out where there are children, and if you must then you need to train the dog some more and/or keep him on a lead and very close.

Khaos, people are only saying they don't mind because they are polite and don't want to either hurt your feelings or deal with a strange dog whom they have no experience with. They do not want your dog to jump up at them or lick them, and you should not bring a dog out if he still has some 'bad habits' when people approach. It is not up to other people to understand what stage of training your dog has reached. When people see a dog out with its owner they assume the dog is fit to be taken out among people. It is up to you to make more responsible decisions about when to take your not-completely-trained-yet dog out.

My dog just wants to sniff and piss up trees in peace
Keep your kids running up with sticks under control
How difficult is it ?
My dog is always ALWAYS under control

As the only completely frothing at the mouth poster here that I have seen, I think it is actually you who are the minority, Donnadoon.

Because its this entitledness that kids can treat dogs how they like
Makes me sick
Poor dogs are abused enough in this shitty society

mathanxiety - of course it's a dog owner's responsibility to train and socialise a dog...but you can only do that by taking them into places with people.

Personally if I had a dog that was liable to snap at someone just because they got too close or stroked them in a normal way I'd have it muzzled in public, but I d

My dog is on a lead math and kept close. Doesn't stop irresponsible idiots charging up to fuss her without warning which is what the post was originally about.

math, how do you propose these dogs ever become trained if they are not allowed out in public, for people to be able to train them on how to behave in public?

And again, this thread is about dogs on leads, Khaos was explaining that her dog, whilst on it's lead is approached by adults who encourage it to misbehave, despite her requesting that they don't. She does not let her dog approach and then jump on people, people come up to her dog and then allow it jump on them, despite her protestations.

Children should not touch dogs without first asking, just as it is a driver's responsibility to be aware of pedestrians stepping into the road suddenly, but children should still be taught not to step into the road without looking both ways. It is common sense and decency.

Sorry hit post by accident in my phone.

But it has been said on this thread that if a child runs up and inserts their hand into a dog's mouth (which has happened to me more than once) then if the dog bites down in surprise then the dog owner is at fault.

But what's wrong with you helping the dog owners to do that by also teaching your children the best way to approach a dog and it's owner Math?

In the same way that you would teach them other aspects of personal safety or even just basic politeness. Because actually most dogs won't bite if approached, but it's still polite to ask about petting them first.

I think that dog owners should realise that not everyone sees their animal as anything more than an animal

I don't see his 'personality' or 'sweetness'. I see a dog looking up to ( sometimes ) the guy in charge of dinner.

I think all dogs should be muzzled in public spaces.

I was a very happy dog owner btw

But in the case set out by the OP, it's not about what the dog owners realise.

It's not about someone not liking their dog and the owner thinking they should like it and see it's personality and sweetness.

It's about a child running up to pet a dog on a lead, so perhaps liking it too much, when the dog or more likely the owner doesn't want them to just run up and grab it.

That's what the OP is saying. Her dog is an animal and a stranger has no way to tell if it's a friendly one or not. She keeps it on a lead and would appreciate parents helping her out by explaining to their children that they should ask before they touch it.

The best way to find out if you can safely pet a strange dog is to ask first, not grab.

My dogs don't mind being petted by strangers but I like to have the opportunity to get down to dog/child level and hold them still while a child strokes them. I feel better, the dogs know they are safe, the children get the chance to gently stroke the cute puppy and the funny looking older one.

And I don't have to worry that someone is standing in the background thinking "liability" at me while their children leap all over the dogs.

Ronald - Quite. If all dogs were muzzled in public, there would be no biting ever. Problem solved.

Having seen exactly what a dog can do to a child in my previous job, I find it very, very hard so be quite so sanguine about a "frightened" or "nervous" dog who "snaps" or "bites".

Mostly, I find the level of vitriol posted by some so-called dog lovers to be rather disturbing.

Disagreeing with you about how wonderful dogs are is not being goady or a troll.

Finally, it is disturbing the number of excuses some are making here for canine aggression. I grew up with a dog. My mum spent a lot of time training her so that we could take anything off her without growling. It was clear that any aggression from her would have been unacceptable and if she bit anyone, she would be PTS, so it was in everyone's interest that we ensured it never happened. She lived to a ripe old age.

Yet, elsewhere on here I've heard all sorts of excuses and justifications for dogs being aggressive towards children in the same house, which I find baffling and sad.

Actually Max these people really do not mind the licking, they go so far as to continue to put their hands INSIDE my dogs mouth, why? because they think it is wonderful that they can and want to test her training.

Why would you make assumptions about people you have never met in a situation you were not a part of?

Sheesh Max should have read your post more thoroughly, these people are already interacting with my dog, of their own choice, they approach us and actively encourage the dog to lick.

She has never jumped on a person while out walking as we keep her on a short lead when people approach.

To suggest that we do not walk our dog as she has some habits that we are actively training her out of, especially when sociallising on walks is a big part of this training is ridiculous. Dogs need to be exercised regardless of their level of training, this is why we have leads and dog owners take all steps to ensure that their dogs are under control. An energetic dog that is not walked because people like you deem it to be unfit to be allowed in public is far more dangerous than a dog that has been exercised.

This post seems to have moved far from the original point which is people approaching dogs who are on leads and under control.

For the record my dog is thoroughly trained and will happily let anyone put their hands in her mouth, poke her in the eyes and tug on her ears and tail without reacting, she will not snap of growl if you take her food away, and will drop food if told to. As I type our kitten is wrapped around her face with one paw in her eye and chewing on her ear, this happens daily and the dog happily lies there and takes it, the cat has hurt her before and when he does she will yelp and come sit by me to remove herself from the situation. Despite all of this training she is still thoroughly supervised with both children and cats.

Sorry that should have been directed at Math not Max.

But what's wrong with you helping the dog owners to do that by also teaching your children the best way to approach a dog and it's owner Math?

Absolutely nothing. But a dog owner shouldn't assume all children know how to approach a dog or whether to approach a dog, and if a child gets it wrong they shouldn't assume a child hasn't been told. Children get carried away sometimes.

Khaos, you could take your dog to a place where you are not likely to encounter many people perhaps, until she stops jumping up and licking people? How is the dog going to know who wants to be licked and who doesn't? If this is one of the habits you are training her out of you must have some inkling that it is an undesireable habit or otherwise why bother trying to stop it? The best thing to do is discourage the dog from licking, and jumping and keeping her away from places where you are likely to find a lot of people in the meantime.

As to assumptions -- thank you for the dripfeed about people putting their hands in your dog's mouth to test her training but I personally do not enjoy getting muddy pawprints on my clothes when dogs jump up to greet me, and I do not like getting licked by dogs when I am out. I smile and say 'what a lovely doggie' or some such rhubarb but deep down I am wondering how much scrubbing the mud will take. I do not know anyone who would truly enjoy this.

It's about a child running up to pet a dog on a lead, so perhaps liking it too much, when the dog or more likely the owner doesn't want them to just run up and grab it.

That's what the OP is saying. Her dog is an animal and a stranger has no way to tell if it's a friendly one or not. She keeps it on a lead and would appreciate parents helping her out by explaining to their children that they should ask before they touch it.

SarahandFuck -- what you are describing is essentially what is known as an 'attractive nuisance'.

You might as well leave an unfenced swimming pool during a heatwave and put a sign out front that said 'No Swimming in the Pool in the Back Garden --->'.

She has no business taking her dog out if it's not friendly and strangers she encounters can't be faulted for assuming that if her dog is not friendly, or nervous about strangers, then it would be safely at home and not out and about among strangers. It would be incredibly irresponsible to take an unfriendly dog out to a place where unpredictable small children would be encountered.

Owners here on this thread have chipped in time and time again with tales of children running up to their dogs and trying to touch them. It surely must have dawned on them by this point that some children find dogs fascinating. Yet even though they worry about their dogs' response they persist in thinking it is a good idea to take the dogs out among children.

If a dog is not friendly and socialised to the extent that taking it out among children would require, then the dog should not be out in places where children tend to go. If it is friendly and well socialised then the OP has nothing to worry about, right?

Tabularasa -- You can have a dog professionally trained and socialised without using the general public as training props or guinea pigs.

Dooin She does not let her dog approach and then jump on people, people come up to her dog and then allow it jump on them, despite her protestations.

This is utter baloney.
Her dog is doing something she doesn't want it to do and that means her dog is not fully trained. In the highly unlikely case where people are saying 'jump' to the dog then it would be understandable that the dog would jump up at them, but according to you this dog is being 'allowed' by strangers to jump up at them while the owner (who in her later post says her dog is always on a short lead so can't jump) does what -- smiles and says nothing? Tells the dog to get down? It is not the fault of the people who are 'allowing' the dog to jump on them. It is the fault of the owner for inadequately training her dog to keep its feet on the ground and its tongue to itself.

I do not know why Khaos thinks it is the responsibility of strangers who are accosted by her dog to try to fend it off or give it a command to get down that would give the impression that they were flustered by the animal. Most people will grin and bear it in hopes of not coming across as nervous, and will not interfere in how an animal is behaving for fear of treading on an owner's toes or hurting their feelings about a dog they clearly see as an extension of their personality.

People like to appear cool and unfazed and on top of things in the presence of dogs. That is possibly why an adult might put a hand in a dog's mouth. It is considered a bad thing and not very British to appear nervous about dogs if you're an adult, and some people overcompensate for this. Wrt children doing this it's most likely just the fact that the mouth is open that makes them think its ok to do this. Dogs can look as if they are smiling to small children.

Additionally, some dog owners try to reassure people their dogs have jumped on by assuring them the dog is just being friendly - nobody wants to respond to 'friendliness' with words that indicate displeasure or disapproval of what the dog has done. For various reasons they 'allow' the dog to do whatever it can get away with while its ineffectual owner perhaps tries to get it to sit and leave the person alone/stop sniffing the person's bum, etc.

Sorry, I see any dog as a potentially dangerous thing that some people choose to take around with them, despite the risk to others. If it bites my child in a public place where my child has a perfectly good right to be, it's your fault for choosing to carry it and I'll have your hide and your dog's too.

This.

I repeat my dog does not lick or jump on people in public, unless someone approaches her and puts their hand in her mouth. I do not allow my dog to have contact with people in public unless they approach us, she is on a lead.

^Her dog is doing something she doesn't want it to do and that means her dog is not fully trained. In the highly unlikely case where people are saying 'jump' to the dog then it would be understandable that the dog would jump up at them, but according to you this dog is being 'allowed' by strangers to jump up at them while the owner (who in her later post says her dog is always on a short lead so can't jump) does what -- smiles and says nothing? Tells the dog to get down? It is not the fault of the people who are 'allowing' the dog to jump on them. It is the fault of the owner for inadequately training her dog to keep its feet on the ground and its tongue to itself.

I do not know why Khaos thinks it is the responsibility of strangers who are accosted by her dog to try to fend it off or give it a command to get down that would give the impression that they were flustered by the animal. Most people will grin and bear it in hopes of not coming across as nervous, and will not interfere in how an animal is behaving for fear of treading on an owner's toes or hurting their feelings about a dog they clearly see as an extension of their personality.^

The dog is being allowed by strangers to lick, she is not being allowed by strangers to jump because she does not get the chance to jump on anyone on walks. My dog does not accost people on walks, the only people that get licked approach us, and they do not get jumped on ever. Unfortunately I cannot clamp the dogs tongue to restrain her from licking.

No one on a walk has to deal with my dog unless they choose to. I don't think you are reading the posts properly.

Save your typing fingers, Khaos. I think a few posters are deliberately ignoring the fact that we are talking about controlled dogs on leads, just to wind us up. Nothing we do point out how utterly ridiculous they are being by refusing to acknowledge that they have a duty to parent their own child in public and not allow them to harass other members of the public, will get through to them. We used the word "dog" therefore no reasonable discussion can be had, it must be a bun fight. Dog owners will remain mainly calm, while the frothers resort to hyperbole and insults. It will then be the dog owners fault the thread has gone awry

It is going to rain today, I am looking forward to walking my dogs in the rain. Nice and peaceful. What's the weather like where you are and why are you up at this ungodly hour? Is not it school hols where you are yet?

If it bites my child in a public place where my child has a perfectly good right to be, it's your fault for choosing to carry it and I'll have your hide and your dog's too

Absolutely, no arguement with that.

However, If it bites my child in a public place because my child has run up to it, grabbed it, hurt it and it reacted to fear or pain then I will accept that it is my fault for not teaching my child not to do that.

Or as has happened to me:

If it bites my child in a public place where my child has a perfectly good right to be because I allowed my child to continue to approach despite the owner shouting MY DOG IS NOT FRIENDLY, than I am a damn fool whose child is very lucky the owner has quick reflexes as was able to insert herself between dog and child