to think that 20 grand on benefits a year is loads

[MrsBucketxx]

considering they dont pay any income tax.

just watching we pay your benefits program and worked out that this is over 30 grand if it was a normal tax paying salary.

why was this not mentioned.

Yes alcemi those pesky immaculate conceptions eh

So he effectively works part time. But isnt labelled a Carer as he earns more than £100 a week. So we get CTC. But under UC we may be penalised as he isnt working enough hours but apparently isnt a Carer but a scrounger.

But never mind because for the teeny sum of a quarter of a million pounds yearly, you the tax payer, can fund aplace in residential school for her. Then DH can work full time

alemci perhaps a few, but definitely not all. Definitely not the majority IMO. Just as you only hear about the families on welfare with 12 children, you only hear about these teen single mothers who want a home. (and do you hear about the fathers, who happily had sex, but didn't bother with contraception or the consequences? Never!)

RonaldMcD well, thank you for that, anyway. It is balls. It sucks. And there's fuck all that can be done about it unfortunately, for a number of reasons.

That's awfull "twisty.

It isn't just the childcare that is lacking for dc with sn. I am hearing more and more stories of mainstream school not being suitable and parents giving up work to H. ed their dc.
Yes the dc are offered places but ever increasingly the school are unable to cope and the dc are affected.
I do have limited knowledge here though and only know what I have read here and from other H.ed forums.

I appreciate that there are some of us with complex or/ and difficult needs for childcare and care.

I have masses of sympathy and empathy for anyone trying to deal with or trying to get any govt help for those situations. I think that it's rubbish that there is little help or care provided.

I also think that that is not the case for the majority of us.

Free childcare would allow us all equal opportunities to work, access study, retrain.
It would not pay for anyone's lifestyle choice at the expense of another.

Its barking is what it is martini. I think common sense left the building some time ago with regards to penalising the genuinely sick and disabled and their Carers and those in poverty. Its like the Daily Hate has taken over. And when you point out some reasonableness people say 'oh, I dont mean YOU' and forget these reforms are affecting Carers, disabled people, those genuinely unable to find work etc. The tiny minority who do play the system always find a way to continue. Meanwhile there will be real poverty and hardship and tragedy
I couldnt believe when I read about National Service today. The possibility of unemployed 18 year old's being forced to fight our overseas grab for oil. FFS.

Agree Twisty And heres RT yet again reporting what the BBC wont.

rt.com/news/uk-inequality-growth-thatcher-382/#.UewISoOkZe4.twitter

but Ronald not everyone can afford to retrain. They need to work to bring in money and some of us would have to pay to study. I would quite like to do a degree but I need to work at the moment.

childcare is no longer an issue for me as mine are teenagers

twisty

to be fair no one mentioned cutting benefits or help for those who are disabled or for those who care for them

we discussed ending benefits for those arsing the system about

Ronald i think you need to reread yr own post.

Not everyone without children is in need of someone else to support their pension, you know. If they were, we'd have gone bust already so that point holds no water.

Add message | Report | Message poster
DarkesteyesSun 21-Jul-13 17:26:59

Here it is Shelly Final line of this post.

RonaldMcDonaldSun 21-Jul-13 14:33:22

I also think that removing tax credits will make it more likely that people have the children that they can afford.

Not the children I afford for them

I'm all for big families.
I'm all for SAHP
If you play for them yourselves

I think contraception would become massively more reliable if someone else didn't pay

If tax credits are removed from families where one parent refuses to work because they can and do take advantage of the benefit system then the SAHP will have to work to support their family like anyone else. If they refuse to do so then it will be that SAHP's fault if their child suffers. It will be their choice to SAH that causes the suffering. Not the lack of system to exploit.

I think it is hard for some to see that they need to support themselves and their families. It is no one else's responsibility except in circumstances of caring, disability or extreme life chance ( for a ltd period

But that is what is happening Ronald. They are using a hammer to crack a nut with the Welfare Reform Bill and disabled people were not protected.

darkest

i don't understand the point you are trying to make. I'm not trying to be difficult
I just don't get what your point is. Could you clarify?

In fairness to Ronald I haven't agreed with much she/he has said but I think the last line is saying support for those with a limited life, not only support for a limited time.
I hope I am right.

twisty

there is no support, anywhere, for the government cutting services and finance to the disabled, carers or those with life limiting/life changing illnesses.

there never was and never will be.

Other benefits were seen as fair game to an extent. I think there is more sympathy and should be greater benefits for someone who has lost their job and can't find work that for someone who chooses not to work.

How can you tell the difference Ronald?

Ronald don't kid yourself. I've heard some horrible opinions from people in the general public as well as right here on MN about "the government supporting people who choose to have disabled children." Some really ugly black-hearted people out there.

actually it was just badly typed and referred to life change not life limiting illnesses

i think that there should be flexibility for extra support for people when hit by bad sets of circumstances..that's what I meant

what do you mean twisty?

if someone doesn't work because they don't feel it will 'pay them to' in comparison to the tc they will otherwise receive I'm disinclined to feel they should receive tc/benefits

If there is good reason why you cannot work then provision must and of course should be made.

Fair enough Ronald It didnt read like that thats all.
Triggles ive heard similar stuff on here and in RL too. Awful.

Wouldn't it work to up the wages to a living wage, whilst giving smaller businesses a tax credit/boost to allow them to stay in business and still pay the higher wage? The bigger businesses would carry more of the weight (as they can better afford it) and the smaller businesses could still carry on.

The increase in wages could be paid back to the smaller businesses much like statutory maternity wages are, could they not?

Then more people make more money, more buying power, more confidence in purchasing power, and boosts economy.

Although obviously, I am no accountant or economist or what have you. Just been mulling it over.

of course, if they did that, they'd have to scrap workfare, to avoid big businesses from using that to keep from paying higher wages.

workfare is another thing that should work if bloody used properly

if someone needs work experience to get a specialised job and a company won't take them on or pay them until they have it
then a type of internship idea (except for everyone without the contacts or rich parents etc) should help people get the job they want

that's the workfare I'd have

it shouldn't be used as a punishment
slave labour
for forced unskilled work

Absolutely not. You want them to work for you, you pay them, even if that means you pay to train them. You notice it's just big businesses using the workfare programme. They're not looking to train people up for permanent jobs. If you believe that, there's a bridge I'd like to sell you. They're using it for cheap labour to avoid paying full wage to other workers. How much training or job experience do you think it really takes to stack boxes?

For anything regarding SPECIALISED skills, there are actual apprenticeships (which IMO should be paid a decent wage as well, they are still working).

Workfare will never work - it's too easy to abuse by the big businesses for cheap labour and the government as punishment.