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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think that 20 grand on benefits a year is loads

792 replies

MrsBucketxx · 19/07/2013 08:36

considering they dont pay any income tax.

just watching we pay your benefits program and worked out that this is over 30 grand if it was a normal tax paying salary.

why was this not mentioned.

OP posts:
CloudsAndTrees · 21/07/2013 19:04

People confuse the two toes of tax credits and lump then into being the same thing, and they aren't.

Working tax credits are an unfortunate necessity. It would obviously be better if wages were hight enough that there was no need for them, but that isn't happening, so working tax credits are needed.

Child tax credits are a completely different thing. There should be absolutely no need for them at all. The state should not be giving out this type of benefit, which basically enables people to be SAHPs and have children they don't have a hope in hell of supporting.

I agree that contraception would be likely to become a lot more reliable if they didn't exist, and I say that as someone who has had a pregnancy due to contraception failure.

Some people on this thread don't seem to realise or care about the damage they are doing to their future earning potential from taking years out of the the workforce.

Trigglesx · 21/07/2013 19:13

See, I don't agree. I think it's the working tax credits that should be replaced - by a wage that people can actually live on, with a subsidy helping out the small businesses - again, much like the statutory maternity wages are done.

Some people don't have a choice about taking years out of being in the workforce. I LOVED my job. I was the higher earner in our family, but here I am at home as a carer. The longer I'm away from it, the less likely I'll be able to get back into it. And yet, I am a SAHM for the foreseeable future, possibly years, due to my situation.

I think you are wrong about contraception and unplanned babies.

Child tax credits are a completely different thing. There should be absolutely no need for them at all. The state should not be giving out this type of benefit, which basically enables people to be SAHPs and have children they don't have a hope in hell of supporting. So no taking into account that people's situations can change dramatically literally overnight. Hope you're feeling lucky then.... until your DCs are adults... because there are a lot of people that need these tax credits.

CloudsAndTrees · 21/07/2013 19:36

I agree that it would be better if WTCs were replaced with a wage that people can live on, but as that's not happening at the moment, I don't think it's reasonable to disagree with WTCs existing. Of course it would be better if they didn't have to exist, that much is obvious.

When people's situations change, there are other ways of supporting them instead of using a benefit that is related to the number of children you have. It is wrong that people who have never worked can claim so much in CTCs.

When circumstances change, people can be supported by JSA linked to how many years they have been working for. I don't think we should be paying out any money at all for children who have been conceived when one or both parents is needing to claim any type of tax credits.

morethanpotatoprints · 21/07/2013 19:42

Clouds.

So my dc don't deserve to be supported because my dh doesn't earn enough, charming aren't you ?

RonaldMcDonald · 21/07/2013 19:43

Er...
You could, you know, work?

Trigglesx · 21/07/2013 19:44

Clouds so what you're saying is that those who haven't contributed what is considered "enough" have no safety net at all? God, you really are charming, aren't you?

Support should be given to those who need it on a basis of need, not their level of contribution.

alemci · 21/07/2013 19:53

cloud has a point though. I seem to remember my mil saying she had to pay extra ni contributions she could ill afford to pay for her pension as she had the audacity to take time off whilst her dc were young.

I also think that people not in employment should not be having more dc.

also the benefit system can discriminate against the self employed if they are out of work.

are some people going to ever work or make ni contributions? I am not talking about carers or the disabled etc

Mabelface · 21/07/2013 19:54

Well, considering that both my husband and I work all the hours we can and still need to claim working and child tax credits, plus the fact that I have triplets (who plans for that?!!!), it shows that a decent living wage is what is needed, not stopping children from being fed, which is what would happen should child tax credits stop. As for JSA, no matter how many years you've paid into the system, you get that for six months, then you go onto income based, the same as people who've not paid into the system.

Trigglesx · 21/07/2013 19:58

I also think that people not in employment should not be having more dc.

Yep. Because that's the first thing people think of when they have no job, no income, and nothing to pay bills with - let's get pregnant. Hmm

also the benefit system can discriminate against the self employed if they are out of work

So you think getting rid of it entirely will help them more? Hmm

alemci · 21/07/2013 20:18

no triggles im pointing out flaws in the system.

Trigglesx · 21/07/2013 20:19

tomato, tomahto..... Hmm

ThePowerof3 · 21/07/2013 20:20

I was just reading an article about food poverty and one lady was living in a single room in a shared house with her young son (his dad had left) she is working and earning only 16 grand a year, £450 a month on childcare leaving only 10 pounds a month for food for her and her son, she would have been better off on benefits in the respect that she wouldn't have to pay for childcare but that isn't the fault of others on benefits it's the system and the crippling cost of childcare

RonaldMcDonald · 21/07/2013 20:32

Thepower

On those numbers the lady and her son could have received tax credits.

CloudsAndTrees · 21/07/2013 21:08

So my dc don't deserve to be supported because my dh doesn't earn enough,

That's up to you and your DH, isn't it? Nothing to do with me. You made them, you chose to have them. You decide whether you want to support them, don't ask me!

Do you think your children deserve to be supported? Or do they only deserve to be supported financially if you don't have to do it yourself?

JakeBullet · 21/07/2013 21:23

Clouds, as a society we are responsible for the least able to protect and fend for themselves. Like it or not that includes the children born to those not in work (and they won't all be planned) and those to people who use the tax credits as they were originally planned to be used.

So it IS to do with all of us whether we like it or not.

martini84 · 21/07/2013 21:56

And personally I wouldn't want to live in a society which didn't support those in need. Sadly not everyone and the govt especially doesn't feel the same.

opilo · 21/07/2013 21:56

Benefits are out of control and totally unaffordable going into the future, its not even debatable anymore. I think we need to look at whether a 5 day week is enough as many jobs which are the standard 5 day low paid jobs do not generate enough value within that period to support the lifestyles of those that work within them.

Darkesteyes · 21/07/2013 22:00

opilo dont forget that housing benefit is paid to those IN work

Darkesteyes · 21/07/2013 22:02

So are you advocating a 7 day week opilo. mmmm would you say the same if your DC was hit by a driver who had been driving for too many hours/days.

Darkesteyes · 21/07/2013 22:06

Yes Opilo that pesky luxury lifestyle of having to pay their council tax and gas and electric.

opilo · 21/07/2013 22:06

There are many people with skills in occupations that in the "conventional" working week cannot generate sufficient income to support themselves so they are going to need to increase the number of hours they work to provide enough income to support themselves not rely on State handouts.

martini84 · 21/07/2013 22:07

Or an operation was botched because the doctor was too tired. Surely people have a right to some family life. My dh is out of the house 13 hours a day 5 days a week. That is enough.

Darkesteyes · 21/07/2013 22:09

And how are they going to get those extra hours when employers are cutting back Where are those hours going to come from.

Those hours that the employers arent filling with workfare that is.

martini84 · 21/07/2013 22:10

O andsince pensions are the biggest strain on the benefits system maybe the govt should look at cutting wfa for wealthy pensioners.

Trigglesx · 21/07/2013 22:10

Yeah, force low paid workers to work up to 7 days a week. That's better. Punish the poor even more. Great way to push up mental illness, divorce, stress related problems...

Bollocks again.