To not care how 'friendly' your dog is, if you can't control it, it should be on a lead

[IcouldstillbeJoseph]

I'm neither a lover or hater of dogs but this is beginning to piss me right off rankle.

Near to where I live is a lovely lake. Nice path, children's play area, ducks etc. Popular in this weather.

I was out walking today with DS 2.6 and DD 6mo. As has happened on so many occasions now, we'll be stood feeding the ducks, only to have somebody's dog come bounding along to us, no owner in sight (the path is quite bendy) and start sniffing about. Now, obviously the sniffing I don't mind so much but DS is a bit wary of dogs and today one started trying to lick his face and was licking at DD's feet in the buggy. The owner then saunters around the corner, calling dog's name (to which it pays no attention) and then looks endearingly at the dog and at DS's worried expression and says "oh don't worry she just wants to give you kisses". No attempt to get control of the dog at all.

I gave tight-lipped half smile and turned away resisting urge to wipe DD feet with an anti-bac wipe

Well that's just charming. Human society has a responsibility to structure itself around the animals it uses and interacts with. What a selfish attitude to have - we don't have a god-given right to destroy other life on the planet, or chain it up for our own amusement. People chose to domesticate dogs for hunting, and later companionship, same as we keep other animals for meat and entertainment. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but we have a responsibility to ensure those animals have some sort of quality of life, and that includes the basic freedom to perform natural behaviours.

Aside from anything else, I honestly believe that it is a very short step from denying those freedoms to animals, to denying them to other humans. After all, a dog feels pain, loneliness and sadness too - where does one draw the line? If it's acceptable to inflict suffering on a dog, why not a child, or a vulnerable member of society?

Because a dog is not the same as a person. Hth.

I might have a bit more sympathy for the RSPCA if there weren't so many crap dog-owners. But, there are so many crap dog-owners. There are thousands of people bitten to the extent of requiring hospital treatment every year so clearly dogs and their idiot owners cannot be trusted, ergo they need to be leashed.

dogs that are not under control and that act in any way aggressively near children are likely to get booted in my experience. I have a family member who was bitten by a supposedly friendly dog...dog owners who have animals they can't control should be fined put have the animal taken off them. Children and people in. general are more important than animals

Children do deserve consideration - they are living, feeling animals, with needs and the right to a basic standard of welfare - and that does include not being frightened

Because a dog is not the same as a person. Hth

On an ethical level, that's a pretty feeble dichotomy.

Bogeyface nobody's disputing that. That's why the by-law which states that in public areas, dogs must be under control defined as coming immediately to call or leashed) should be more strictly enforced. This would protect the rights of all concerned, rather than villifying dog owners indescriminately, and inflicting unnecessary curtailment on the exercise of well trained dogs.

*indiscriminately. It's late...

Define a well trained dog please.

You cant, because (as with children) what is a little darling to one dog owner is a little shit to other owners. So unfortunately, for the good of the many, indiscriminate ruling is the only to go.

the only way to go

Under control, defined as returning to owner immediately on being called back, or on a lead. I.e. well trained = will return instantly on call back.

Wow that was easy to define...

I teach my DCs to never ever touch or approach someone else's dog without first asking the owner's permission. I expect dog owners to show the same respect to me and my children. If they cannot control their dog, their dog should either be on a lead or just not there at the park. I don't care if you consider the dog friendly or not. Controlled or absent. Very simple.

These are most likely the same dog owners that bring their dogs on school property, despite all the signage saying "No dogs on school property."

The problem is that there is a wide swath of people (dog owners or not) that feel the general societal (and other) rules don't apply to them.

That is the official definition, but you try telling the owner of a little darling that!

Hmmn. I have horses, and most of my time is spent training them to be well behaved and easy to handle. Its obvious that many dog owners simply don't have a clue. Not so much a problem for me when riding, as my horses love dogs and dogs tend to respect them, even when loose and under no control, but when I'm out running, I attract dogs like the Pied Piper. I don't know whats worse, a loose dog running along with me, or a shrieking owner to whom the dog is paying no attention whatsoever. I've had to bring dogs back to their owners, and then hold them for them by the ruff thing on their necks or whatever its called while they get their leads on because their own bloody dog won't let them catch it.

I know nothing about dogs, never had one, but surely any dog is going to tune out of continual shrieking of varied nonsense, none of which is a recognisable and clear voice aid? Surely having one or two words for recall, repeated firmly and less frequently, is more likely to work?

YANBU

YANBU at all. My dog is never off the lead because he's a disobedient bugger who likes to be chased by me. My sister on the other hand rarely puts her dog on the lead and its behaviour is terrible but she thinks it's funny and thinks other people think it is too, despite me getting really angry about it.

When we go camping together my dogs are staked to the ground. She refuses to do this to hers as 'he's well trained'. That is until he gets a whiff of something and then he's off, helping himself to other people's sausages, picnics, ice-creams. She's had him 6 years now. I don't know how she's got away without a complete bollocking off someone for so long. She is absolutely convinced that people don't mind.

'I now have dogs and think that it is most important to teach children to be around dogs and dogs around children'

No. It might be sensible to teach children how to be around dogs, but it should ALWAYS be assumed by the owners that they haven't been, or they have SN that make it impossible to not act in a way that aggravates the dog, or that they are severely allergic, and they should keep their dogs away from other people.

A dog licked my baby's sippy-cup today because he was crawling around the grass with it, - yuck.

madhairday - that is truly shocking. Made worse by the fact it is entirely believable as what the response from some dog owners would be.

I wonder if I challenge the owner of a 'friendly' dog today whether there will be an AIBU about me

I'm a dog owner

My dog will never approach anyone, will back away when approached. He has an "away" command which means if he's heading close to someone he'll veer away rather than continue in that line

I completely appreciate that people may be nervous around him, although he's spaniel sized and very cute teddy bear looking he is basically a ball of fur, claws and teeth at child level.

I do believe also that children need to be taught not to approach without asking, not to pull, tug, slap at him and if they're frightened and there's a dog off lead to stay still not to jig around and run. My youngest was petrified of dogs until the age of about 4 and was a jiggler and it took a lot of effort, but loves them and all animals including insects now

My dog has immaculate recall. One sharp shout of her name and "here" and she will instantly return. In the woods (where humans are not supposed to be) she may need a couple of shouts, but that's because she can smell deer, rabbit, squirrel, rat, mouse and god knows what else - it's probably overwhelming! I've had humans shout to 'keep the dog away' (she barks a lot) but a quick "No, you are trespassing" is usually enough. Even then I wouldn't let Mutt approach them.

I must be very lucky. Even before I was a dog owner I never had any of the bad experiences that people are describing here. I have 2 friends, each with 6 dogs. 1st friends dogs have no interest in humans - except their owner. They don't want fuss, they don't want to play, they want to work. But because they are spaniels, parents think they must be friendly and allow their kids to approach, even after my friend has told them not to. Then when the dogs low growl or bare teeth the parents complain. Luckily where he lives there are very few children.

The other friends dogs have never been around children (except DD) but are amazingly respectful of them, they are desperate to play, but stay away until the child approaches them. 3 of the six are very large dogs (Rott and Rott type mongrels), are ridiculously friendly and well trained but parents say things like 'keep those killers away from my children' and 'you shouldn't have dogs like that around children'. The dogs have done nothing wrong, but are judged on their size and/or reputation. I think that is sad, especially as one of the large dogs is a PAT dog.

Bad dog owners deserve scorn/annoyance/derision. But don't tar us all with the same brush.

I don't think all dog owners are tarred with the same brush. I have seen some people out with their dogs that very obviously have their dogs under control.

But, for example, our 6yo DS1 has SNs and cannot cope with strange dogs bounding up to him and licking him or what have you. He absolutely will panic and scream and get highly upset. To have the dog owner stand there and grin inanely saying "Oh don't worry, he's friendly" doesn't alleviate his fears AT ALL. And by then, the damage is done - it will take hours to calm him down, and for weeks after every time he sees a dog he will panic.

I really don't think it's in any way reasonable to insist that all dogs are kept on leads and are basically denied being able to run just in case they happen to be in a park at the same time as a child who doesn't like them.

I don't have a problem with my dog running up to people and licking them or sniffing them. He might run past people and be near them, but we use a public park which we have as much right to use as parents with children and my dog does nothing wrong.

We share this planet with other people and other species, which means that unless we are all going to buy vast amounts of our own land to take our children or dogs on walks, then we are all just going to have to accept that we have to put up with each other.

i don't have a problem with my dog running up to people and licking them or sniffing them I do hope you mean that you don't have a problem with it as in, it doesn't happen?

Some unbelievable attitudes from (some) dog owners here.

A dog can very easily push a small child over. 'Jumping up' isn't being 'boisterous' or playful when their claws leave scratches that hurt and bleed. A lot of them make growling sounds or bark loudly right next to a child when they are being 'playful'. All of which can injure and terrify a small child, and create an ongoing and problematic fear of dogs.

Dogs are NOT on a par with humans. This is where dog owners totally lose the plot and turn into nightmare antisocial selfish entitled idiots.

I grew up with dogs. Love 'em. My family still has dogs and my toddler ds thinks they are the bees knees. We have established certain rules for when they are around each other, including the need for my son to be gentle and respectful of the dogs. I also teach him not to assume other dogs are friendly and not to approach them.

It makes my blood boil when dogs bound around the park out of control and scaring children, some feeble owner pointlessly warbling their name (dog not trained, might as well recite a poem at them) or worse, ignoring or doing the 'ha ha he's only playing' spiel.

Sadly I can't go up to these owners and push them over, scratching their arms and legs, dribbling spit in their face and then say 'ooh don't be scared, I'm only PLAYING!'

Til then I'll content myself with shouting 'Get your badly behaved dog on a lead please!' Which approach does sometimes get me abuse but very often gets me thanks from grateful parents.

CloudsandTrees not saying your dog has to be on a lead all the time nor implying you and your dog cannot go in the park, but you do need to keep it under control.

Letting it sniff/ lick other people is not on, especially if the other person it's bothering is a child.

DS1 (12) is not a natural dog lover, I fact he was terrified until the age of 8, and neither am I. We got a dog last year to help with DS2' SN and I've spent a lot if time and money training her not to jump up when out as I hate it too. I won't let her off in a play park, but I do in a local dog walking area where literally all the dogs are off lead. I honestly think I'm going to have a coronary sometimes when a massive dog comes up to me, but it's the only place my own dog gets to run properly around properly.